Beneteau Composite Post Rudder Bearing

[Sailor 99]

Have looked around the forum for info and found a couple of drawings but no clear instructions.

I have an 86 Beneteau Idylle 15.50 with slop in the rudder bearings. When I measure the movement it is about 1.6 mm which is 1/16 of an inch and the same for the top bearing. This is too much and is causing problems.

The rudder has a composite post about 6 inches in diameter, wrapped in stainless steel. It looks like this



Beneteau sent me this picture of the bearing for this area. It is bronze, about 3mm in thickness, about 6 inches in diameter and about 90 mm long and available for the low low price of $1065.25 USD



Looking at the attached document RudderBearingMethod 1 I assume that to install these bearing one wraps it around the rudder post, tapes it, checks for fit and then spreads 5200 or Sika 291 all over it and lifts it up into the hull using the rudder and waits for the adhesive to dry.

If someone knows this to be true could they confirm please.

Before that happens I have to remove the old bearing and I get the idea it is peeled out of the rudder tube by whatever means are necessary.

Is this also true? Be nice to know before I start trying to break a corner out out with a hammer and wood chisel. If someone has a better idea I am all ears. Maybe I will get lucky and it peel away from the hull easy once I get it started.

The bearing currently in the rudder tube is grey and not bronze so I assume it is delrin and I will use same to replace it.

The upper bearing is much more straight forward as I can the bearing block out of the boat.

As always any suggestions are appreciated.


Thanks

[neilpride]

The top bearing is usually quite easy to replace, the lower one is glued, you have to take it off, with the rudder removed, you have to sand and clean well all the area where it was glued, clean well, I recommend that in the new one you make some grooves with a dremel just where its face sticks to the hull, use 5200,this way the glue has a better grip, they tend to get loose.

There are 2 ways to adjust it. With the rudder in place or you adjust it in the rudder bushing, take the bushing, slide it in the rudder, take the dimension that is left in the opening of the bushing, write it down and when you have it stuck in the the hull, adjust it by pushing all the remaining 5200 until you have that measure.
The first way is dirtier, the second way is cleaner.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by neilpride

The top bearing is usually quite easy to replace, the lower one is glued, you have to take it off, with the rudder removed, you have to sand and clean well all the area where it was glued, clean well, I recommend that in the new one you make some grooves with a dremel just where its face sticks to the hull, use 5200,this way the glue has a better grip, they tend to get loose.

There are 2 ways to adjust it. With the rudder in place or you adjust it in the rudder bushing, take the bushing, slide it in the rudder, take the dimension that is left in the opening of the bushing, write it down and when you have it stuck in the the hull, adjust it by pushing all the remaining 5200 until you have that measure.
The first way is dirtier, the second way is cleaner.

Thanks Neil. I have a question.

I have the bearing out now and from your description and looking at the bearing it seems to me like this is not a tight fit but that you adjust the play in the bearing by how much 5200 you get into space between the hull and the bearing.

Is this true?

[neilpride]

It's a tight fit, I mean, you see the bushing has an opening, if you slide it into the rudder you'll see how it opens up a little bit when it's in place and there's a close fit.

Now if you slide it out of the rudder it closes again, I have adjusted a few with the rudder removed and gluing the bushing with the rudder removed to, what happens is that when you apply the 5200 you have to compress the bushing on all sides until the 5200 overflows well and leave that little tolerance that you saw when you slide the bushing in the rudder so that when you raise the rudder blade it fits perfect with no play.

If you find it too complicated there are people who simply put the 5200 in the opening of the rudder hull and raise the rudder with the bushing already in the rudder and done.

[neilpride]

0,5 mm
It is in the diagram you have posted .

So if you glue it with the rudder down, be sure to leave 0.5 mm .

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by neilpride

0,5 mm
It is in the diagram you have posted .

So if you glue it with the rudder down, be sure to leave 0.5 mm .

That is pretty clear. Sounds really messy regardless of how you approach it. I don't like the idea of putting 5200 in before I put the bearing in.

I guess what I meant is that it is not at close fit like putting a wheel bearing in a car. The bearing itself does not fit tightly into the hull, you have to make up the play with 5200.

I managed to remove the bearing without damaging it and it is bronze.

Given the Canadian exchange rate by the time I have this bearing in my hand it is going to cost me about $1800 including shipping and taxes.

It strikes me that since the 5200 is what sets the play in the bearing and majority of the bearing is still there is there any reason I could not simply trim the edge of the bearing (so it will get smaller in dia) and then reinstall it?

[neilpride]

It strikes me that since the 5200 is what sets the play in the bearing and majority of the bearing is still there is there any reason I could not simply trim the edge of the bearing (so it will get smaller in dia) and then reinstall it?

No, because if you cut it and add more 5200 to compensate for wear what you will get is that the rudder will stress the bearing, it will end up loose and you will end up with a loose bushing.

This is simple, the bearing goes in with a minimum tolerance, i.e. the entire diameter of the bearing is glued to the hull, subtract the difference or the thickness of the thin film of 5200.

Then the rudder sleeve also fits with a minimum tolerance with the bearing.

It is not a bearing of the wheel of the car of course, cut it and add more 5200 does not work mate,if it is worn, it must be replaced.

The prices are crazy.
Try other dealers.

[Rumpi]

Adding more sealant between tube and shell is exactly how Beneteau wants you to adjust the bearing play. You need to clean the glueing surfaces perfectly, shiny bare metal on the sleeve and clean grp in the tube, otherwise it will fail. Installation is as mentioned, zip tie the sleeve to the shaft and adjust the gap, tape the shell to maintain said gap, cut the ziptie, apply two beads of 5200 or similar and slide the whole affair into the tube.
Also check if the stainless sleeve is securely attached to the shaft, that's often a problem of this design.

If the current bearing is to worn you don't have to buy the replacement from Beneteau. Any bearing place will sell you a plain sleeve 6" or 6 1/2" outside diameter, 1/2" wall thickness 3" or 4" long, for about 3-400$. This you can have machined on a lathe to the exact specifications needed, and you are still way ahead of Beneteaus price. 936 bearing bronze is what you want, but 932 and 841(oil filled sintered) are also available, just more difficult to machine.
If you want to spend the money, Jeffa has roller bearing replacements available, could even be cheaper the the original plain bearing.