Best Hard Paint for under the waterline

[Drek4]

Well I did find this below, that seems to indicate a Hard paint is better for idle or slower boats...


Hard bottom paint is generally used on boats when the boat sits for long periods of time without moving at all, or there is little movement of water (current/ tide) around the boat.

https://www.bottompaintstore.com/blo...-bottom-paint/

[Benz]

Originally Posted by grantmc

Respectfully, I don't feel that I was told backwards. I've just checked quite a number of vendor paint guides and yachting and vendor 'How To's', including Altex, Petit, International as below, Yachting Monthly, TotalBoat etc. and the consensus seems to me to be for slow boats ablative, and fast boats it's hard paint. And I've been trying to avoid my own confirmation bias.

Reprinted from the International Paints Guide:

Hard antifouling
If you have a fast boat, or a fast boat that is used very regularly, then hard antifouling is usually the best product to choose. --- For those who like to race, hard products are a good option as they can be burnished or wet sanded to a smooth finish.

I do appreciate that there is considerable variability before choosing the type of paint. Factors such as fresh or sea water, water temperature, whether the boat remains in the water all year round, and of course the critters in the local area that are prevalent, water cleanliness and of course local regulations.

This is interesting, because I'm convinced I've been told the opposite. Probably boils down to personal preference at the end of the day....

[fstbttms]

Unbelievable the amount of erroneous information shared in a forum like this. Here are the basics for Joe Average cruiser when it comes to a choice between hard paints or ablatives. And none of it has anything to do with how fast you sail your boat:

1.- Hard paints have a longer useful lifespan than ablatives. And a high quality copper-based hard paint will provide 3+ years of good service, even with frequent in-water cleaning. The downside? Hard paints cannot withstand prolonged exposure to air, making them a poor choice for boats that are hauled for the winter or are dry-sailed. Also, hard paints build up over successive paint jobs and at some point need to be completely removed in order to provide a good subsurface for new paint. They do not require a fast boat to work and are very popular amongst pleasure craft of all types.

2.- Ablative paints wear away with use and therefore tend not to last as long as hard paints. The softer versions also do not stand up well to regular in-water cleaning (although they require regular in-water cleaning just as frequently as their hard counterparts do.) Further, there are some that are ruined by spending almost any time in freshwater. But they can be exposed to air without problems. And they don't build up over successive paint jobs like hard paints. There are also places (in the U.S., at least) where cleaning ablative paints has been banned.

3.- Coppercoat is not an anti fouling paint and does not work like anti fouling paints work. Coppercoat is a copper-loaded epoxy. It is literally epoxy with copper powder added to it. It has very poor anti fouling properties and requires periodic sanding to expose fresh copper biocide. Does it last a long time? Yes. Does it do a good job? Not in this professional hull cleaner's experience.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Unbelievable the amount of erroneous information shared in a forum like this. Here are the basics for Joe Average cruiser when it comes to a choice between hard paints or ablatives. And none of it has anything to do with how fast you sail your boat:

1.- Hard paints have a longer useful lifespan than ablatives. And a high quality copper-based hard paint will provide 3+ years of good service, even with frequent in-water cleaning. The downside? Hard paints cannot withstand prolonged exposure to air, making them a poor choice for boats that are hauled for the winter or are dry-sailed. Also, hard paints build up over successive paint jobs and at some point need to be completely removed in order to provide a good subsurface for new paint. They do not require a fast boat to work and are very popular amongst pleasure craft of all types.

2.- Ablative paints wear away with use and therefore tend not to last as long as hard paints. The softer versions also do not stand up well to regular in-water cleaning (although they require regular in-water cleaning just as frequently as their hard counterparts do.) Further, there are some that are ruined by spending almost any time in freshwater. But they can be exposed to air without problems. And they don't build up over successive paint jobs like hard paints. There are also places (in the U.S., at least) where cleaning ablative paints has been banned.

3.- Coppercoat is not an anti fouling paint and does not work like anti fouling paints work. Coppercoat is a copper-loaded epoxy. It is literally epoxy with copper powder added to it. It has very poor anti fouling properties and requires periodic sanding to expose fresh copper biocide. Does it last a long time? Yes. Does it do a good job? Not in this professional hull cleaner's experience.

Unbelievable? Here we go again, a bunch of Joe Average dummies asking simple questions and the experts like you who is in your mind the best in the world, ready to pounce and contradicts everyone's response... after all, what is this forum for???
Take it over fstbttms, you are the king, the ONLY expert in this forum about antifouling!!!

But.... frankly I did not see anything you mentioned that contradicts the previous replies. Again, your expertise is in the Pacific NW, right?
BTW, any paint that is applied below the waterline in my humble opinion is considered to be anti fouling, no matter if it is epoxy based that you have to sand from time to time or any other product designed for the same purpose.
'Nough said.

[OutOfControl]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Unbelievable? Here we go again, a bunch of Joe Average dummies asking simple questions and the experts like you who is in your mind the best in the world, ready to pounce and contradicts everyone's response... after all, what is this forum for???
Take it over fstbttms, you are the king, the ONLY expert in this forum about antifouling!!!

But.... frankly I did not see anything you mentioned that contradicts the previous replies. Again, your expertise is in the Pacific NW, right?
BTW, any paint that is applied below the waterline in my humble opinion is considered to be anti fouling, no matter if it is epoxy based that you have to sand from time to time or any other product designed for the same purpose.
'Nough said.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Take it over fstbttms, you are the king, the ONLY expert in this forum about antifouling!!!

Based on most of what was written in this thread before I got here, that's apparently the case.

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Again, your expertise is in the Pacific NW, right?

Umm... no.

Originally Posted by SVTatia

BTW, any paint that is applied below the waterline in my humble opinion is considered to be anti fouling...

I didn't say copper-loaded epoxies aren't anti fouling. I said they aren't paint. But I get how important technical differences might not mean much to people who don't know what they're talking about.

Look, if people want to spew fallacies about anti fouling coatings and other people want to believe that those fallacies are in fact, fact- hey, they're free to do that. But I'm going to have something to say as well. And like it or not, I have decades of real-world, in-water experience with this subject, so yes, I have some level of expertise. I'm sorry if that gets your knockers in a twist.

And BTW? Just because you may already know something about what I've posted here doesn't mean everybody reading this thread does. Some readers might actually learn something. It isn't all about you, mmm-kay?

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Unbelievable the amount of erroneous information shared in a forum like this. Here are the basics for Joe Average cruiser when it comes to a choice between hard paints or ablatives. And none of it has anything to do with how fast you sail your boat:

You've not stated what is actually wrong with the earlier posts. Please specify.

In respect to your statement that the paint chosen has nothing to do with how fast your boat goes. You need to get on to International Paints and get them to change their paint specifications (paragraph 3). I only quoted directly out of their spec for which I did give a url, to repeat (again I include the url link to the IP spec).

Reprinted from the International Paints Guide:

Hard antifouling
If you have a fast boat, or a fast boat that is used very regularly, then hard antifouling is usually the best product to choose. --- For those who like to race, hard products are a good option as they can be burnished or wet sanded to a smooth finish.

Originally Posted by fstbttms

1.- Hard paints have a longer useful lifespan than ablatives. And a high quality copper-based hard paint will provide 3+ years of good service, even with frequent in-water cleaning. The downside? Hard paints cannot withstand prolonged exposure to air, making them a poor choice for boats that are hauled for the winter or are dry-sailed. Also, hard paints build up over successive paint jobs and at some point need to be completely removed in order to provide a good subsurface for new paint. They do not require a fast boat to work and are very popular amongst pleasure craft of all types.

2.- Ablative paints wear away with use and therefore tend not to last as long as hard paints. The softer versions also do not stand up well to regular in-water cleaning (although they require regular in-water cleaning just as frequently as their hard counterparts do.) Further, there are some that are ruined by spending almost any time in freshwater. But they can be exposed to air without problems. And they don't build up over successive paint jobs like hard paints. There are also places (in the U.S., at least) where cleaning ablative paints has been banned.

3.- Coppercoat is not an anti fouling paint and does not work like anti fouling paints work. Coppercoat is a copper-loaded epoxy. It is literally epoxy with copper powder added to it. It has very poor anti fouling properties and requires periodic sanding to expose fresh copper biocide. Does it last a long time? Yes. Does it do a good job? Not in this professional hull cleaner's experience.

Again with respect, the post is appreciated, and provides a fabulous description of the various paint systems for below the water line. I'm very grateful for this definitive information. Similar diatribes are found in most of the paint vendor specifications. But it does lack a small detail that the OP and subsequent posts have asked/discussed.

That being that it fails in explaining or recommending which paint is best for any particular boat and the circumstances that need taken account of in selection, with the exception of locales where boats are dry stored in Winter.

Perhaps you could help ius by completing the small chart as below, certainly would be helpful for Joe Average like myself. These are just a few issues that an amateur might need take account of, but an expert in bottom paints will help with other factors I'm sure. I've assumed a boat that spends most of its time moored/anchored. I've ignored high spec racing yachts that are regularly 'cleaned'. And I've no category for cruising yachts that spend much of their time on passages. One might need to consider the existing paint system, and of course there will be things like stern drives, and other hardware that will likely need a different type of antifoul. I wonder often if I should antifoul my dinghy as it spends most of its life in dirty sea water.

Similarly paint brand availability where one is will be a factor. And paint manufacturers must take account of local regulations and/or biosecurity rules, so for example antifouling paints containing diuron, octhilinone or ziram cannot be imported or manufactured here in New Zealand.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Unbelievable the amount of erroneous information shared in a forum like this. Here are the basics for Joe Average cruiser when it comes to a choice between hard paints or ablatives. And none of it has anything to do with how fast you sail your boat:

1.- Hard paints have a longer useful lifespan than ablatives. And a high quality copper-based hard paint will provide 3+ years of good service, even with frequent in-water cleaning. The downside? Hard paints cannot withstand prolonged exposure to air, making them a poor choice for boats that are hauled for the winter or are dry-sailed. Also, hard paints build up over successive paint jobs and at some point need to be completely removed in order to provide a good subsurface for new paint. They do not require a fast boat to work and are very popular amongst pleasure craft of all types.

2.- Ablative paints wear away with use and therefore tend not to last as long as hard paints. The softer versions also do not stand up well to regular in-water cleaning (although they require regular in-water cleaning just as frequently as their hard counterparts do.) Further, there are some that are ruined by spending almost any time in freshwater. But they can be exposed to air without problems. And they don't build up over successive paint jobs like hard paints. There are also places (in the U.S., at least) where cleaning ablative paints has been banned.

3.- Coppercoat is not an anti fouling paint and does not work like anti fouling paints work. Coppercoat is a copper-loaded epoxy. It is literally epoxy with copper powder added to it. It has very poor anti fouling properties and requires periodic sanding to expose fresh copper biocide. Does it last a long time? Yes. Does it do a good job? Not in this professional hull cleaner's experience.

Thank you very much for your input and confirmation about hard paint.
My boat will be always be in the water, except for haul outs to do maintenance and this is why I titled my post as such, since I'm searching for a paint with a good durability.
I know that I must expect to do some sanding before applying the next coat and I'm ok with that.
So I will continue my research in that direction and hoping I will have good feedback for the best Hard paint.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by grantmc

You've not stated what is actually wrong with the earlier posts. Please specify.

Primarily the whole "hard paints are for fast boats, ablatives are not/ablatives are for fast boats, hard paints are not" argument, of which you were a contributor. Neither type of paint is produced for or marketed to any particular segment of the recreational boating market. Fast boats, slow boats, sailboats and powerboats all use both types of anti fouling paint to great effect. When someone advises a sailboat owner that hard paints are only for fast boats, they do so out of ignorance.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Drek4

...I'm searching for a paint with a good durability.

In my experience, Pettit Trinidad (any flavor) is the most durable hard paint you can buy. It also happens to be the most effective hard paint you can buy, IMHO. The aforementioned Trinidad SR (not "SLR") has been discontinued but there are at least one or two new Pettit products intended to replace it.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

In my experience, Pettit Trinidad (any flavor) is the most durable hard paint you can buy. It also happens to be the most effective hard paint you can buy, IMHO. The aforementioned Trinidad SR (not "SLR") has been discontinued but there are at least one or two new Pettit products intended to replace it.

I will take good note of that, you seem to confirm what some also said about this paint.
Thank you very much, I appreciate your input.

[AA3JY]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

In my experience, Pettit Trinidad (any flavor) is the most durable hard paint you can buy. It also happens to be the most effective hard paint you can buy, IMHO. The aforementioned Trinidad SR (not "SLR") has been discontinued but there are at least one or two new Pettit products intended to replace it.

Look hard enough one can still find the discontinued Trinidad SLR on shelves. I was lucky enough to find a couple gallons and quarts in the (rare) color of green. As mentioned best long lasting bottom paint IMHO

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by AA3JY

Look hard enough one can still find the discontinued Trinidad SLR on shelves. I was lucky enough to find a couple gallons and quarts in the (rare) color of green. As mentioned best long lasting bottom paint IMHO

That's good to know, will keep that in mind, once the time comes.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

In my experience, Pettit Trinidad (any flavor) is the most durable hard paint you can buy. It also happens to be the most effective hard paint you can buy, IMHO. The aforementioned Trinidad SR (not "SLR") has been discontinued but there are at least one or two new Pettit products intended to replace it.

In my personal experience on my own boats (both power and sail), I have consistently gotten good results with Pettit Trinidad. My boats have been in the water year round and have been periodically cleaned. Trinidad works well for me in this application as fstbttms suggests.

[sail sfbay]

Check with your diver on what he recommends AND what other boats use where the boat will be anchored. Clean the bottom with the softest pad to avoid removing the paint. I use 2 coats of Pettit Trinidad Pro hard paint on my boats in the San Francisco and get 3 years life, albeit might not be applicable for your anchoring location(s).