Best Way To Do Lightweight Stanchions/Lifelines These Days?

[smj]

We have invisible lifelines on our cat, something we keep in mind while making our way around the boat.
I also think lifelines for the most part give a false sense of security and ads to the danger if you are falling overboard as you now have no control over your fall.
I’m sure there are some form of lifeline that would hold my weight if fallen against but nothing I’ve seen that’s lightweight. And since I’m tall most lifelines hit me around knee height, not the best scenario for safety.

[kryg]

This is an important subject and question re safety - I just totally re-rigged my boat with Dyneema, this included the life lines, in doing so my Stanchions are custom solid aluminium rod turned from thick base to thinner top stanchions.

They are not hollow pipe. I had to chamfer the holes since they are a solid rod for the Dyneema safety lines.

In my experience the stanchions should be as solid as possible, I can tell you the past boat owner was lost through failed stanchions which were thick walled aluminium pipe tubes at the time, this was a weight saving measure! That cost his life.

On your stanchions I recommend don't go overboard on weight savings build them as strong as possible when you or your crew fall and go flying into them they need to hold at all costs.

As to the Dyneema, safety lines they should be soft sleeved, the entry into the stanchion tube should be sleeved with chafed holes.

Also, I found my Dyneema line do stretch a bit allow enough adjustment to take up the slack when needed. Finally, my Dyneema safety lines have a black soft protection sleeved cover.

Good luck with your project it sounds very exciting.

PS for thoughts who are interested I saved about 240 kilos of wire rigging weight in exchanged for only 30 kilos of Dyneema rigging, the weight saving ratio would be the same for the safety wire lines to Dyneema as well.

Originally Posted by Chotu

I’m working with the fiberglass/carbon pultrusion companies right now on a big order for everything I need to buy in terms of pultrusions.

I was thinking I’d order my stanchions from them too.

My thought was to drill holes through the deck and glass (or mechanically fasten) the stanchions right to the bulkheads.

Then I’d get Dyneema and run it through the stanchions to pads at either end.

Is this a good way to go?

I was thinking hollow tubes for the stanchions. However, this could be leaky where the Dyneema passes through.

Thoughts on this?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

We have invisible lifelines on our cat, something we keep in mind while making our way around the boat.
I also think lifelines for the most part give a false sense of security and ads to the danger if you are falling overboard as you now have no control over your fall.
I’m sure there are some form of lifeline that would hold my weight if fallen against but nothing I’ve seen that’s lightweight. And since I’m tall most lifelines hit me around knee height, not the best scenario for safety.

I’m not reading well between the lines here. No pun intended.

Invisible lifelines? So none?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I’m not reading well between the lines here. No pun intended.



Invisible lifelines? So none?

Exactly!
Not saying others should feel the same way, and I’m sure I could have a “safe” lifeline fabricated, but we don’t feel it necessary with the layout of our boat.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

Exactly!
Not saying others should feel the same way, and I’m sure I could have a “safe” lifeline fabricated, but we don’t feel it necessary with the layout of our boat.

I feel the same way.

My girlfriend keeps reminding me to get these done. I haven’t seen any need for them. It’s not necessary to go out of the salon on my boat unless you’re anchoring or docking. And it never will be. Sail controls are to be in the salon.

But... she (at 23!) doesn’t feel sure footed enough to walk around the deck. We have a pretty insane freeboard so that may have something to do with it, but I’d be just fine without any lifelines to be honest.

However, I have little choice. Lol

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I feel the same way.

My girlfriend keeps reminding me to get these done. I haven’t seen any need for them. It’s not necessary to go out of the salon on my boat unless you’re anchoring or docking. And it never will be. Sail controls are to be in the salon.

But... she (at 23!) doesn’t feel sure footed enough to walk around the deck. We have a pretty insane freeboard so that may have something to do with it, but I’d be just fine without any lifelines to be honest.

However, I have little choice. Lol

Dang Chotu she’s 23? Instead of Dyneema lifelines have you considered chain link fencing with razor wire on top.....just so she doesn’t jump ship![emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Obviously this post was meant to be humorous!

[Pauls]

Regarding waterproofing where the dyneema safety lines run thru the stanchions, buy some fiberglass tubing with an ID slightly larger than your dyneema. Drill holes in the stanchions and bond in tubing pieces. It will be best to allow the tubing to protrude slightly outside the stanchions as this creates greater bond surface area.

These inserts also gives a smooth surface for the dyneema to pass thru. The holes should be chamfered.

Dynex Dux is currently considered to have 7 year service life as standing rigging in the tropics. It is very UV resistant.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I feel the same way.

My girlfriend keeps reminding me to get these done. I haven’t seen any need for them. It’s not necessary to go out of the salon on my boat unless you’re anchoring or docking. And it never will be. Sail controls are to be in the salon.

But... she (at 23!) doesn’t feel sure footed enough to walk around the deck. We have a pretty insane freeboard so that may have something to do with it, but I’d be just fine without any lifelines to be honest.

However, I have little choice. Lol

Chotu, you may have all your control lines led to your salon, but it’s silly to think you will never go out on deck while sailing or motoring. And it can get pretty rough when anchored sometime.

• Watching dolphins
• Suntanning or otherwise enjoying your deck, cabin top or trampoline areas while underway
• Setting, retrieving and tweaking a flying sail
• Recovering a damaged sail
• Replacing a broken control line
• Recovering or re-anchoring in difficult conditions
• etc., etc., etc...

Surely you don’t need me to tell you that it’s not always flat water with the sun shining when you need to leave your salon or cockpit?

Your flag state likely has regulations regarding lifelines. You may not care about that, but what if you want to enter a rally or a recreational race?

Finally, lifelines do provide a handy place to hang washing.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Chotu, you may have all your control lines led to your salon, but it’s silly to think you will never go out on deck while sailing or motoring. And it can get pretty rough when anchored sometime.

• Watching dolphins
• Suntanning or otherwise enjoying your deck, cabin top or trampoline areas while underway
• Setting, retrieving and tweaking a flying sail
• Recovering a damaged sail
• Replacing a broken control line
• Recovering or re-anchoring in difficult conditions
• etc., etc., etc...

Surely you don’t need me to tell you that it’s not always flat water with the sun shining when you need to leave your salon or cockpit?

Your flag state likely has regulations regarding lifelines. You may not care about that, but what if you want to enter a rally or a recreational race?

Finally, lifelines do provide a handy place to hang washing.

Can’t I say I agree with SMJ? I guess not. I do, however, see his point and acknowledged it.

My girlfriend wants the lifelines soon, just for walking around the boat in flat calm at a dock. So the lifelines are getting done. I don’t need a huge case for them. The whole point of the thread was to ask how people are doing the Dyneema modern, lightweight ones so I can get my materials for that bit of the project and be ready to start putting them in. So obviously I’m doing it.

My flag is USA. So thankfully, no regulations. Yet I’m still doing them

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

Dang Chotu she’s 23? Instead of Dyneema lifelines have you considered chain link fencing with razor wire on top.....just so she doesn’t jump ship![emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Obviously this post was meant to be humorous!

Ha ha ha. I can electrify it too. Good for keeping pirates out and girlfriends in.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Pauls

Regarding waterproofing where the dyneema safety lines run thru the stanchions, buy some fiberglass tubing with an ID slightly larger than your dyneema. Drill holes in the stanchions and bond in tubing pieces. It will be best to allow the tubing to protrude slightly outside the stanchions as this creates greater bond surface area.

These inserts also gives a smooth surface for the dyneema to pass thru. The holes should be chamfered.

Dynex Dux is currently considered to have 7 year service life as standing rigging in the tropics. It is very UV resistant.

Thank you. It’s good to get some working knowledge. I know so very little about these new materials and new ways of doing things. So everything helps.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Chotu

It’s the machining. When you machine cured epoxy it frees up some of the amines from the polymer. I would never have known this if I didn’t have this happen and cause me to have an anaphylactic reaction. So, I’m getting all remaining parts in polyester to keep the epoxy work to a bare minimum.

I can certainly size a polyester round tube to be as strong or stronger than a given epoxy tube bu changing the wall thickness.

So I’m sticking with that. We’ll see about bedding them. Still working on a complete solution.

Tube? I thought you were getting carbon fiber tube? The G10 is rod, not tube and it goes inside the carbon fiber tube so you can’t make it bigger...

[Moonskater]

Hi again,
Two points of this;
1, When a carbon stanchion breaks (not if, but when), it splinters and becomes a leathal weapon to anyone that comes near unless you are not already stabbed!
I´d go for Titanium Tube with welded through inserts for the Dyneema to pass through instead. By coincidence, this is what i have.. The titanium tube will "only" bend if overloaded.
2, i´m intrigued by not having them at all. They are definately a false security. Lifelines are also false security if they are placed so that it is possible to end up on the outside of the boat when you fall. Try to pull up a 100kg body over the railing being soaked and dragged in the wash of water. He/she will probably have drowned before being recovered. Keep lifelines centered on the boat and teathers short to keep you from the edge!
Keep em coming!
/p

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Tube? I thought you were getting carbon fiber tube? The G10 is rod, not tube and it goes inside the carbon fiber tube so you can’t make it bigger...

Nope. That wasn’t me. Never mentioned carbon fiber. Other people did.

Yes, G10 just a material. Comes in sheets too. But a rod for the stub in this method people have been talking about. Using different materials, I can size the rod up or down as well as size up or down the wall thickness of the tube.

Epoxy is not my friend, as I’m sure you’re well aware. Keeping that to a minimum is important.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

My thought was to drill holes through the deck and glass (or mechanically fasten) the stanchions right to the bulkheads.

This is 16-20 leaks just waiting to happen. No different than a multitude of through hulls. They need to be in preformed sockets, probably too late to achieve this, or deck mounted stanchion bases either with non cored solid deck pad sections or back plated on the inside.