Bonding of bowthruster Vetus?

[Segelplaner]

Hi!
I just replaced our old Vetus Bowthruster with a new.
The old was broken and burned. The old bowthruster was connected to boat bonding network and without zincanode.
The new bowthruster have zincanode.

Should I connect the new Vetus bowthruster (with zincanode) to boats bonding system?

[slug]

Originally Posted by Segelplaner

Hi!
I just replaced our old Vetus Bowthruster with a new.
The old was broken and burned. The old bowthruster was connected to boat bonding network and without zincanode.
The new bowthruster have zincanode.

Should I connect the new Vetus bowthruster (with zincanode) to boats bonding system?

Hmmm...good question ...I had a quick look at the electrical diagram for your thruster and I saw no earth bonding cable.


Normally best practice is to have all wet metal bonded together

A danger associated with bonding an electric device like your thruster is when an internal dc fault leaks electricity into the bonding system ...the entire boat become hot

When unbounded the thruster electrical leak would be confined , isolated to the thruster

You should call up Vetus and ask what “ best practice “ is

[Segelplaner]

Originally Posted by slug

Hmmm...good question ...I had a quick look at the electrical diagram for your thruster and I saw no earth bonding cable.





Normally best practice is to have all wet metal bonded together



A danger associated with bonding an electric device like your thruster is when an internal dc fault leaks electricity into the bonding system ...the entire boat become hot



When unbounded the thruster electrical leak would be confined , isolated to the thruster



You should call up Vetus and ask what “ best practice “ is

Thanks [emoji106]
Jonas

[slug]

Another detail is lightning protection ...all wet metal assists in dissipating a lightning blast
Logic says that the thruster..bronze should be part of the bonding system

I wonder what Vetus says ?

[Segelplaner]

Have mailed Vetus and wait for answer. The boats bonding cable are ”thin” compared to electric cabling bowthruster. Guess lightning will ”use” the ”wider” cables as a dissipating network path?

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by Segelplaner

Hi!
I just replaced our old Vetus Bowthruster with a new.
The old was broken and burned. The old bowthruster was connected to boat bonding network and without zincanode.
The new bowthruster have zincanode.

Should I connect the new Vetus bowthruster (with zincanode) to boats bonding system?

All accessories should be installed with the ground at the connection nearest the engine so that you do not use the hull as a ground return to the common connection near the engine. In this case, the Bowthruster, If this is fiberglass vessel, the ground should be returned to the common connection. If the hull is steel, the same thing... return the ground to the common connection near the engine. To verify this grounding or bonding, take a digital volt ohm meter and before installing the thruster check continuity between the return or ground to the casing. If this shows open circuit, the return has to go back to the common point near the engine so that you do not use the hull as a return to ground... if you need more clarification on this, post your question and I will answer it. Roger

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Segelplaner

Hi!
I just replaced our old Vetus Bowthruster with a new.
The old was broken and burned. The old bowthruster was connected to boat bonding network and without zincanode.
The new bowthruster have zincanode.

Should I connect the new Vetus bowthruster (with zincanode) to boats bonding system?

Following.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Segelplaner]

Originally Posted by seabreez

All accessories should be installed with the ground at the connection nearest the engine so that you do not use the hull as a ground return to the common connection near the engine. In this case, the Bowthruster, If this is fiberglass vessel, the ground should be returned to the common connection. If the hull is steel, the same thing... return the ground to the common connection near the engine. To verify this grounding or bonding, take a digital volt ohm meter and before installing the thruster check continuity between the return or ground to the casing. If this shows open circuit, the return has to go back to the common point near the engine so that you do not use the hull as a return to ground... if you need more clarification on this, post your question and I will answer it. Roger

Hi Roger!
What does the ”common connection” mean, the bonding cable network? Do you say that the bowthruster must be bonded even there is a zincanode?

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Segelplaner

Hi!
I just replaced our old Vetus Bowthruster with a new.
The old was broken and burned. The old bowthruster was connected to boat bonding network and without zincanode.
The new bowthruster have zincanode.

Should I connect the new Vetus bowthruster (with zincanode) to boats bonding system?

Follow the manufacturers instructions. Imtra thrusters I have installed are not to be connected to the vessel bonding system. (My guess would be, if it is supplied with its own sacrificial anode, it is not to be bonded, but do query the manufacturer, as they are responsible for liability and warranty.

[slug]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Follow the manufacturers instructions. Imtra thrusters I have installed are not to be connected to the vessel nondescript system. (My guess would be, if it is supplied with its own sacrificial anode, it is not to be bonded, but do query them manufacturer, as they are responsible for liability and warranty.

Sounds logical from a galvanic point of view

[JOHNMARDALL]

Hi there Jonas,


Some do, so don't, but please attach the case of your thruster to the bonding system.


Best Regards
John Mardall
for

Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment.

[Segelplaner]

Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL

Hi there Jonas,


Some do, so don't, but please attach the case of your thruster to the bonding system.


Best Regards
John Mardall
for

Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment.

Hi John
Your advice is to bond the bowthruster casing?
Jonas

[JOHNMARDALL]

Originally Posted by Segelplaner

Hi John
Your advice is to bond the bowthruster casing?
Jonas

Yes, the case is bolted to the saddle flange which is bolted to the tailpiece/gearbox, so that one connection gets all of the components including those in the water. Many OEMs and installers also connect the negative motor terminal to the bonding system, which I also think is a good thing to do.

Please feel free to contact me direct at jmardall@comcast.net if you need more information or discussion Here in the USA bonding is considered mandatory but I know there are places in the world that see it differently.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by Segelplaner

Hi Roger!
What does the ”common connection” mean, the bonding cable network? Do you say that the bowthruster must be bonded even there is a zincanode?

I can clear this up a little. Bonding is a physical connection, the casing has to be bonded to the hull ei: steel casing to the steel hull, the casing is bolted or welded. In a fiberglass hull, the casing has to be bonded to the ship or vessel by a physical copper thinned wire, with copper thinned connections sealed with shrink tubing, bonded or connected to the other metal around ei: frame, chain plates, masts, keel, propeller tubes, outdrives etc... Seal these connections to prevent corrosion. MANY PEOPLE CONFUSE THIS AS BEING GROUNDED. YOU ARE BONDING THE METAL PARTS TOGETHER.

Now the wiring connections... (THE GROUND WIRE) this wire can be black (ground), OR green(ground), OR white(ground) OR yellow(ground)... yes this is very confusing! You have to look at your wiring diagram and determine which wire is ground. Then you connect the wire to your ground near the engine. This connection, THE ground, can be at the battery at the engine. When there are multiple wires going to this ground, it comes to a point where there are so many grounds that you have to have a bolt that will connect all these ground wires(sss) together. All your accessories have to return to the battery ground WITHOUT using the hull as a return to ground.

Now in the case of a bow thruster... the "RED" positive battery cable is connected to the thruster and also connected to the battery positive. The thruster battery is most likely very close to the thruster. And to feed this battery, there has to be a cable coming from a charging source... where ever that is. Now the thruster battery ground cable, has to be wired to the ground near the engine. This can be at a ground on another battery near the engine or a bolt where all the grounds are near the engine. …Roger

[slug]

Originally Posted by seabreez

I can clear this up a little. Bonding is a physical connection, the casing has to be bonded to the hull ei: steel casing to the steel hull, the casing is bolted or welded. In a fiberglass hull, the casing has to be bonded to the ship or vessel by a physical copper thinned wire, with copper thinned connections sealed with shrink tubing, bonded or connected to the other metal around ei: frame, chain plates, masts, keel, propeller tubes, outdrives etc... Seal these connections to prevent corrosion. MANY PEOPLE CONFUSE THIS AS BEING GROUNDED. YOU ARE BONDING THE METAL PARTS TOGETHER.

Now the wiring connections... (THE GROUND WIRE) this wire can be black (ground), OR green(ground), OR white(ground) OR yellow(ground)... yes this is very confusing! You have to look at your wiring diagram and determine which wire is ground. Then you connect the wire to your ground near the engine. This connection, THE ground, can be at the battery at the engine. When there are multiple wires going to this ground, it comes to a point where there are so many grounds that you have to have a bolt that will connect all these ground wires(sss) together. All your accessories have to return to the battery ground WITHOUT using the hull as a return to ground.

Now in the case of a bow thruster... the "RED" positive battery cable is connected to the thruster and also connected to the battery positive. The thruster battery is most likely very close to the thruster. And to feed this battery, there has to be a cable coming from a charging source... where ever that is. Now the thruster battery ground cable, has to be wired to the ground near the engine. This can be at a ground on another battery near the engine or a bolt where all the grounds are near the engine. …Roger

Most of the yachts I deal with have floating ground...

a two pole electric system

With a two pole system Negative (-) positive (+) are completely isolated from the bonding system earth


An example of a single pole system would be your car...chassis is Negative (-)