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gonesail · 04-03-2011, 05:44

if you don't screw it on .. i am pretty sure it will eventually fall off .. been there done that.

**boatman61** · 04-03-2011, 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by panglao dave

Contact Gougeon Bros tech helpline or their website there was excellent article on bonding to teak.....some of the suggestions that the epoxy will "pop" are fanciful to say the least.

Properly applied the teak will be worn down before the epoxy gives up it's grip

Gougeon qualified epoxy tech.

Sorry mate.... you may be a qualified tech and me an inept worker but most epoxied teak I've seen on other boats and ones I've done the job on inevitably end up with big and small yellowing blisters where the teaks rejecting the epoxy after 12 - 18 mths....
But as I said...

michaelmrc · 04-03-2011, 06:09

Ok so if just bonding the wood isn't the best idea what do you suggest if I don't want the appearance of screws through the wood what about screwing them from inside the boat to the backside of the wood?

**s/v Jedi** · 04-03-2011, 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelmrc

Ok so if just bonding the wood isn't the best idea what do you suggest if I don't want the appearance of screws through the wood what about screwing them from inside the boat to the backside of the wood?

You should bolt them through the hull with the bolt heads countersunk into the teak. Then you cover these with teak plugs. Pretty standard procedure.

I would us a polysulfate as bedding compound, like 3M 101 or LifeCaulk from BoatLife. If you ever want to get rid of the trim you can just take them off (101/LifeCaulk is not an adhesive) and just fill up the holes.

cheers,
Nick.

**boatman61** · 04-03-2011, 06:35

I take it you don't want the telltale wooden plug thats normally used to hide screws....
you could drill and screw from the inside but make sure to pre-drill the timber with pilot holes to facilitate fastening... also reduces chances of wood splitting... or just put in fewer and more widely spaced to act as clamps and long term aids to strength..
Best bet is as Bergy said...
if Mahogany...' there's UV resistant epoxy's... give each piece 3 coats then bond... it won't fall off... and if you wax it each time you wax the boat it should look good for quite a while

panglao dave · 04-03-2011, 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Sorry mate.... you may be a qualified tech and me an inept worker but most epoxied teak I've seen on other boats and ones I've done the job on inevitably end up with big and small yellowing blisters where the teaks rejecting the epoxy after 12 - 18 mths....
But as I said...

Yellowing of epoxy sounds like it's been left exposed to UV (sunlight), in sunny climes this will occur in as little as 6 months
Epoxy should be painted (or see below)

I'm picturing this application as having the epoxy under the teak and therefore protecting the epoxy from UV degradation.
If you want the caulked effect of black caulk between teak strips add carbon powder to the epoxy (almost negates UV degradation)

I can't and won't comment on your skill level but Gougeon estimates 80% of all epoxy bond failures are down to incorrect preparation and mixing.

"Rejecting" the epoxy?

The epoxy, properly applied, migrates into the pores of all woods, not far, but upon seperation you will see some wood embedded in the epoxy.....if it's not then it s.a.s. ain't been applied properly. Applied properly it will tear pieces of wood out with it.

I've even applied epoxy onto teak deck pieces......3 coats looks like 12 coats of varnish, a really deep finish.....BUT it needs protection from UV with an epoxy compatable varnish.

**boatman61** · 04-03-2011, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by panglao dave

Yellowing of epoxy sounds like it's been left exposed to UV (sunlight), in sunny climes this will occur in as little as 6 months
Epoxy should be painted (or see below)

I'm picturing this application as having the epoxy under the teak and therefore protecting the epoxy from UV degradation.
If you want the caulked effect of black caulk between teak strips add carbon powder to the epoxy (almost negates UV degradation)

I can't and won't comment on your skill level but Gougeon estimates 80% of all epoxy bond failures are down to incorrect preparation and mixing.

"Rejecting" the epoxy?

The epoxy, properly applied, migrates into the pores of all woods, not far, but upon seperation you will see some wood embedded in the epoxy.....if it's not then it s.a.s. ain't been applied properly. Applied properly it will tear pieces of wood out with it.

I've even applied epoxy onto teak deck pieces......3 coats looks like 12 coats of varnish, a really deep finish.....BUT it needs protection from UV with an epoxy compatable varnish.

Sorry... I thought thats what I said... it'll fall off...
And the above is why I never recommend epoxying teak decks... as some owners often want coz it looks pretty...
did it on an old Jongert.. despite my warnings.. and the guy was gutted watching his deck bubble and lift/yellow... lost a lot of good teak fixing the mess...

SabreKai · 04-03-2011, 12:08

As for clamping them, try this. Get half a dozen pairs of 8 foot long 1x2s. (They should be long enough to stand on the ground and have the top end up over the toe rail.)Hold them vertical against the hull side, and loosely tie the top ends to the toerail. Then tie the bottom ends to the cradle base or to the opposite 1x2. Tightly so that the top ends are sprung. Then release the top ends a bit so you can place the trim. When you go to put the trim on, put it in position and tight up the line from the toerail, thereby pulling the 1x2 in tighter to the hull. There,s your clamp. You can pad them with strips of carpet.

Putting the trim on alone is going to require some juggling. Tie some lengths of light string to the toe rail and hang it down to the approximate level that you want the trim strip at. Then go along and place the trim where you want it and tie it at that level. Leave it hanging. Then go do the 1x2s.

Sabre

delmarrey · 04-03-2011, 12:13

To confirm what some others have said, I'd go with the screw and plug method, or screw from the inside. If the trim is going to be a rub rail or bumper of sorts, it's going to have to be screwed on, especially if it's put on a rounded surface.

Mahogany makes a less weather durable exterior wood unless lacquered.

The problem I see with epoxy is when the boat twists/flexes. Epoxy dries hard not allowing for any movement, depending on the size of the wood surface being bonded. The more surface area the better the bond.

**s/v Jedi** · 04-03-2011, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

The problem I see with epoxy is when the boat twists/flexes. Epoxy dries hard not allowing for any movement, depending on the size of the wood surface being bonded. The more surface area the better the bond.

Yes, use West System G/flex epoxy or similar from other manufacturers. As the name implies it is "flexible". It is as strong as their normal epoxy. I buy the thickened version in tubes (50/50 mix) and like it a lot, because 99% of the jobs I use it for need it syrup consistency which it already is. Add a little Colloidal Silica (=Cabosil) if you want it thicker.

ciao!
Nick.