Bottom paint application cost!!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Enough!

Several times now you have stated I claimed something that I have not.

I advised as clearly as possible that I did not state what you claimed.

Do not post any more about this until you can specify the post number and link a proper ACTUAL quote.

IMHO repeatedly and purposefully misquoting someone, is tantamount to intentionally lying.

If you wish to quote me on something, please quote me VERBATIM on what follows...

Might want to go back and read the posts you are responding to. This is exactly what I did in post #67. The orginal post was #47.

I'll repost it for you since you seen to have issues remembering what you wrote (emphasis added):

I chuckle to myself, every time I walk through a yard, and see DIYers taking unnecessary risks with their health, the health of others, and the environment, cutting years from their life expectancy, spending way more time and money than necessary, creating horrible results, that they'll have to redo way too soon, completely ignorant of what an "expert" bottom job constitutes, because, "it ain't rocket science", believing in their soul, they are "saving" money.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Might want to go back and read the posts you are responding to. This is exactly what I did in post #67. The orginal post was #47.

I'll repost it for you since you seen to have issues remembering what you wrote (emphasis added):

I chuckle to myself, every time I walk through a yard, and see DIYers taking unnecessary risks with their health, the health of others, and the environment, cutting years from their life expectancy, spending way more time and money than necessary, creating horrible results, that they'll have to redo way too soon, completely ignorant of what an "expert" bottom job constitutes, because, "it ain't rocket science", believing in their soul, they are "saving" money.

Do you accept the premise that mishandling hazardous material may be hazardous to one’s health?

If you can’t understand the difference between what I posted, and what you claimed I meant by that, I can’t help you.

[Jim Cate]

If you can’t understand the difference between what I posted, and what you claimed I meant by that, I can’t help you.

So, RR, what DID you mean when you said "cutting years from their life expectancy"?

On the surface, it seems a pretty simple statement, one that needs little interpretation: these fools are gonna die YEARS sooner than if they did not diy their bottom paint in the manner which you observed them doing.

Where have I failed to understand your meaning?

Jim

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, RR, what DID you mean when you said "cutting years from their life expectancy"?

On the surface, it seems a pretty simple statement, one that needs little interpretation: these fools are gonna die YEARS sooner than if they did not diy their bottom paint in the manner which you observed them doing.

Where have I failed to understand your meaning?

Jim

Jim, now you are just trying to distract attention from your terribly flawed notion that anti-fouling paint magically transforms from a hazardous material to a harmless material the day one decides to remove it.

Lets not argue the fine details of misrepresentation ad inifinitum.

Instead, lets just stop misrepresenting others and get on with it.

I just don't have time for this BS.

Anti-fouling paint contains hazardous material.

Mishandling anti-fouling may be hazardous to one's health.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

Do yourself a favor and have fun at the same time: Sail your boat to Mexico and get superior work for a third less money and in a third less time..

Im hauling Monday in La Paz Mexico.

I am Supplying the bottom paint, so my quote to haul block power wash sand prep and apply the bottom paint then splash the boat is $1,150 for a 33ft Sailboat.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Im hauling Monday in La Paz Mexico.

I am Supplying the bottom paint, so my quote to haul block power wash sand prep and apply the bottom paint then splash the boat is $1,150 for a 33ft Sailboat.

So (assuming there is no sales tax or environmental fee) this would likely breakdown something like.

1. Haul / Launch: $200
2. Block: $50
3. Power Wash: $50
4. Mask / Unmask: $50
5. Scuff sand: $200
6. Apply one coat (customer supplied) AF: $550
7. PPE and supplies: $50
Total: $1150

Sounds about right for that location.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum

Let's tell the employees "You have to clock in at 7 every day, but I'm going to pay you only when you have customers."

Keep in mind that, when it's raining, you will not be a customer. I mean, I'll be happy to send my guys out to paint your boat in the rain, and you'll be OK with that, right?

Employees rightfully expect to be paid when they're at work. In order to stay in business, the employer must charge enough for their labor to pay them and to make a profit. Maybe if UNICEF one day gets into the boatyard business you'll be able to find a yard that is able to charge retirees on fixed incomes much less than they charge people who own yachts. But until that day comes, the market is going to set the price.

Disclaimer: I don't own a boatyard. (But I do own a business with 25 employees.)

The rainy days are already covered by the spread between $20/hr paid to yard workers and $100/hr charged by the yard. To justify $18/ft on top of that is obviously double dipping. Why? Because they can and because the boat owner is usually not in a position to shop the rate at that point as every new quote would involve moving the boat to another yard.

These issues should be resolved way befofe one is hauled out.

[thinwater]

Let's park the emotions for a moment; they are running high. I have a plain question.

Why and how is spent antifouling paint (not including TBT) significantly different from other oil-based paints? I'm not arguing for a moment that proper PPE is not required for sanding ALL paints and in fact, most materials.

* The copper and zinc are heavily depleted (but not gone). However, the OSHA copper and zinc exposure limitations for people are not that low. Both are micro-nutrients. Thus, reasonable protection, such as a 1/2-face HEPA-rated mast should be sufficient.
* Organic anti-slime agents are effectively gone. They don't last as long as the copper.
* Solvents are gone.

So specifically, what is the deadly agent, different from other paints? I'm not being sarcastic. I am curious to learn.

[senormechanico]

If copper is supposedly so dangerous, why do some people wear copper bracelets?
There are TV commercials for copper threads in socks, athletic wear etc.
Someone's being BS'ed, I just don't know who.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

If copper is supposedly so dangerous, why do some people wear copper bracelets?
There are TV commercials for copper threads in socks, athletic wear etc.
Someone's being BS'ed, I just don't know who.

Maybe it's inhalation or the vehicle the copper is suspended in? I can't see the bracelets as being relevant. Maybe it's not the copper?

[Jim Cate]

Jim, now you are just trying to distract attention from your terribly flawed notion that anti-fouling paint magically transforms from a hazardous material to a harmless material the day one decides to remove it.

NO, Rod, it isn't magic, and I dispute your claim that my notion is "terribly flawed".

As you should know, anti fouling paint works by incorporating materials which are toxic to fouling organisms (and humans to some degree). The paint is carefully structured so that when immersed in water the toxins are slowly leached from the matrix, thus exposing the fouling beasties to them. Over time, the toxic materials are depleted, and the paint becomes ineffective... because it is no longer toxic to the biofouling. This is when most folks haul out and repaint their boats, and when the sanding off of the old, now ineffective paint happens.
The degree of loss of toxicity is unknown to me, but must be significant... and that is why I was wishing for data and interpretation by an Industrial Hygienist rather than a boat electrician, no matter how many ABYS certificates he has on the office wall.

As thinwater has said, and I have said, any time one generates an aerosol or fine particulate, respiratory protection is advisable. But, once again, folks who get the products on their skin are not "taking years off their lives" as you specifically said.

Looks to me like if anyone is trying to "distract attention" in this discussion it is you, Rod, not me!

Jim

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

I chuckle to myself, every time I walk through a yard, and see DIYers taking unnecessary risks with their health, the health of others, and the environment, cutting years from their life expectancy,

Originally Posted by valhalla360

earlier you implied one DIY bottom job will take years off your life....

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Nope. Those are your words not mine.

Ramblinrod you crack me up dude. Pour me one will ya?

[Clamdigger]

Ramblin rod I am going to support your posts in this thread because I can see you are trying to help newbie diyers from causing themselves potential harm down the road. I hope the folks who have been nickel and diming your posts with a magnifying glass never get sick from their diy projects. That said, many of us who grew up in New England back in the 1960s onward took jobs in yards and marinas as school kids looking for first job work. Myself included, at 16, we're given a pair of latex gloves, a plain mask as one might have used to do interior painting, certainly not bottom paint sanding!, And pointed in the direction of which boats bottom to go sand. Obviously back then at that age most, it not all of us teenagers, had no idea the hazards we were dealing with. Worse yet the yard and marina managers never advised us, and we would sand and paint away day after day all Spring, and again in the Fall, just trying to earn more than a paper route or, if you could get a different seasonal job, would pay. I sadly recall many days of cleaning up at the yard, only to ride my bike home and watch the shower run blue or red from bottom paint. Then go to the sink only to see my teeth with blue or red in between caused by paint that I inhaled working that day, run in the sink as I then brushed my teeth. I say, then, because when we youngsters washed up for lunch we washed out faces and hands but never realized the amount of paint inside our mouths. Very sad back then not knowing what we were exposing ourselves to chemical wise. Now fast forward 50 years, those yard owners are long dead and some of us are getting sick from the exposure, but there is no way to attribute that exposure to current illnesses, so say those that want to deny coverage. I point the finger at lack of ppe not given to us kids back in the day by the marina and yard owners. Glad to say I left after one long Spring of coming home like that covered in bottom paint dust, me and my Schwinn bike.

It's real folks it's toxic and not to be triffled with by careless diyers!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Do you accept the premise that mishandling hazardous material may be hazardous to one’s health?

If you can’t understand the difference between what I posted, and what you claimed I meant by that, I can’t help you.

Sure I accept that mishandling hazardous materials can be hazardous. That was never the question. The issue is the presumption of years off your life using normal precautions where it gets a little fuzzy.

I thought it was only my wife where I had to know what she meant even if what she said was the exact opposite. I'll add you to that list of people.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

If copper is supposedly so dangerous, why do some people wear copper bracelets?
There are TV commercials for copper threads in socks, athletic wear etc.
Someone's being BS'ed, I just don't know who.

Copper is actually a critical nutrient but the body only needs infinitesimal amounts. Too much and it can be deadly.

Easy way to kill a tree is to get a few copper nails and drive them into the base.

So yeah, if you lick your bottom paint it aint good but use reasonable precautions your average DIY guy will use, not a big concern.