Bottom Paint in Washington State-Help!

[wrena]

Originally Posted by newhaul

The issue is it doesn't cover ablative paints on boats its classic government overreach .

RCW 90.48.080
Discharge of polluting matter in waters prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to throw, drain, run, or otherwise discharge into any of the waters of this state, or to cause, permit or suffer to be thrown, run, drained, allowed to seep or otherwise discharged into such waters any organic or inorganic matter that shall cause or tend to cause pollution of such waters according to the determination of the department, as provided for in this chapter

How in the world could you conclude that does not apply to toxic bottom paint on boats? It's inorganic matter that tends to cause pollution. Copper is about to be banned for it, TBT already was.

[wrena]

fstbttms, I was curious about your opinion of non-toxic alternatives, specifically silicone based anti-fouling like Seacoat Sea-Speed V 10 X and AST SLIPS N1x. Do you have any experience with them? Is it all hype?

Asking because I'm also in WA and looking for a long lasting coating that I can maintain myself and won't have to reapply ever other season. I can't touch ablatives in-water without polluting, and I understand hard paints can go bad out of the water for extended periods. Is that also the case with Trinidad SR?

Being limited to the Sound (for now at least) I'm not too concerned about absolute performance as fouling isn't so intense here.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by wrena

How in the world could you conclude that does not apply to toxic bottom paint on boats? It's inorganic matter that tends to cause pollution. Copper is about to be banned for it, TBT already was.

perhaps you should actually read the rcw it was written concerning storm water collection systems and resultant runoff .

https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=90.48.080

If it were actually ment to be pertaining to the modern material concerns they would have updated it sometime in the last 32 years.

[wrena]

RCW 90.48.010
Policy enunciated.
It is declared to be the public policy of the state of Washington to maintain the highest possible standards to insure the purity of all waters of the state consistent with public health and public enjoyment thereof, the propagation and protection of wild life, birds, game, fish and other aquatic life, and the industrial development of the state, and to that end require the use of all known available and reasonable methods by industries and others to prevent and control the pollution of the waters of the state of Washington...

RCW 90.48.020
Definitions.
Whenever the word "person" is used in this chapter, it shall be construed to include any political subdivision, government agency, municipality, industry, public or private corporation, copartnership, association, firm, individual or any other entity whatsoever.
Wherever the words "waters of the state" shall be used in this chapter, they shall be construed to include lakes, rivers, ponds, streams, inland waters, underground waters, salt waters and all other surface waters and watercourses within the jurisdiction of the state of Washington.
Whenever the word "pollution" is used in this chapter, it shall be construed to mean such contamination, or other alteration of the physical, chemical or biological properties, of any waters of the state, including change in temperature, taste, color, turbidity, or odor of the waters, or such discharge of any liquid, gaseous, solid, radioactive, or other substance into any waters of the state as will or is likely to create a nuisance or render such waters harmful, detrimental or injurious to the public health, safety or welfare, or to domestic, commercial, industrial, agricultural, recreational, or other legitimate beneficial uses, or to livestock, wild animals, birds, fish or other aquatic life...

RCW 90.48.080
Discharge of polluting matter in waters prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to throw, drain, run, or otherwise discharge into any of the waters of this state, or to cause, permit or suffer to be thrown, run, drained, allowed to seep or otherwise discharged into such waters any organic or inorganic matter that shall cause or tend to cause pollution of such waters according to the determination of the department, as provided for in this chapter.

Originally Posted by newhaul

perhaps you should actually read the rcw it was written concerning storm water collection systems and resultant runoff ...

If it were actually ment to be pertaining to the modern material concerns they would have updated it sometime in the last 32 years.

The thing is that's obviously not true. It's clearly about any kind of pollution in any water within Washington. Known polluting chemicals clouding off of a hull counts as "otherwise discharged into the waters of the state." While not explicitly included in the definitions section, the relevant definition of discharge here is: something sent forth or emitted.

The RCW hasn't been updated in over 30 years because it's already universally worded. They don't need to update the wording since any change to the waters of the state is in scope, and the department determines what's a pollutant in the first place.

Pollution is just bad m'kay!

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by wrena

fstbttms, I was curious about your opinion of non-toxic alternatives, specifically silicone based anti-fouling like Seacoat Sea-Speed V 10 X and AST SLIPS N1x. Do you have any experience with them? Is it all hype?

I do not have personal experience with either of the products you mentioned and there's a reason for that. Nobody is using them. And there's a reason that, as well. But for clarity's sake, neither are anti fouling paint. They are better described as "foul release" coatings and are a different animal.

Originally Posted by wrena

Asking because I'm also in WA and looking for a long lasting coating that I can maintain myself and won't have to reapply ever other season. I can't touch ablatives in-water without polluting, and I understand hard paints can go bad out of the water for extended periods. Is that also the case with Trinidad SR?

Yes, Pettit Trinidad cannot be exposed to air for extended periods. But it is a long-lasting paint. Up there I think that 3-4 years of good performance wouldn't be hard to achieve from that paint. Are you hauling your boat annually for some reason?

[fstbttms]

BTW- by the letter of the law (specifically RCW 90.48.080), metal-based anti fouling paint of any kind is illegal to use in Washington, as they all leach toxins into the water 24/7/365, be they ablative, hard or otherwise.

[01kiwijohn]

I think I'll just go for a sail up to British Columbia and re-paint the bottom while I'm there

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

BTW- by the letter of the law (specifically RCW 90.48.080), metal-based anti fouling paint of any kind is illegal to use in Washington, as they all leach toxins into the water 24/7/365, be they ablative, hard or otherwise.

by the letter of that law anything you put in the water is illegal ( it would even be illegal for you to go for a swim)

[wrena]

Not quite. I'm not going to quote it again but you can scroll up to see how the term pollution is explicitly defined in chapter 90.48. Known pollutants are further defined by the Department of Ecology.

Swimming in the water doesn't meet these criteria, and people (surprisingly) are not yet defined as known pollutants.

fstbttms is technically correct, and I suspect that may have something to do with the coming ban on copper paints.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by wrena

fstbttms is technically correct, and I suspect that may have something to do with the coming ban on copper paints.

Except that the replacement biocide once copper has been legislated out of anti fouling paint (assuming that actually comes to pass) will be zinc, which is also a heavy metal.

[wrena]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Are you hauling your boat annually for some reason?

No, but I'd like to have the option of hauling out without consequence as my vessel is technically trailer-able. Still researching what's best for me. Currently hauled for the winter while under restoration/refit.

I like the idea of foul-release even if I have to dive my boat before every outing (I say that now) but without much first-hand experience to reference, it's hard to say if it's even close to acceptable in reality (marketing notwithstanding).

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Except that the replacement biocide once copper has been legislated out of anti fouling paint (assuming that actually comes to pass) will be zinc, which is also a heavy metal.

Oh jeeze, I heard there were concerns about replacements ending up being more toxic, I didn't realize they are zinc-based. I thought the focus was more on foul-release coatings...

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by wrena

Oh jeeze, I heard there were concerns about replacements ending up being more toxic, I didn't realize they are zinc-based. I thought the focus was more on foul-release coatings...

Zinc (as it applies to anti fouling paint) is not more toxic than copper, in fact zinc is much less effective as a biocide. This why it is a replacement for and not currently in widespread use.

[wrena]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Zinc (as it applies to anti fouling paint) is not more toxic than copper...

Ah, perhaps the alternatives mentioned in this DOE publication are referring to something else, but they don't go into specifics:

...an Ecology review found that available alternatives to copper paints could actually do more harm to the environment...

[Bill Seal]

"Whenever the word "pollution" is used in this chapter, it shall be construed to mean such contamination, or other alteration of the physical, chemical or biological properties, of any waters of the state, including change in temperature"

I guess everybody will have to go to air cooled inboards

There must be a requirement that the people who dream up these regulations have an IQ of less than 75

[senormechanico]

So anything moving through the water will heat it by friction causing change in temperature.
NO more boating for anybody !