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Blue Stocking · 02-06-2012, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by minaret

Oh, now you've got nothing to say? Don't feel like explaining yourself? Wutta pansy...

--just not interested.

**minaret** · 02-06-2012, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

--just not interested.

Way to prove my point...

Cheechako · 02-06-2012, 11:26

What a bunch of BS over a joint that worked fine for many years as done by the builder.

**minaret** · 02-06-2012, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

What a bunch of BS over a joint that worked fine for many years as done by the builder.

I wouldn't describe an unrotten bulkhead that BROKE IN HALF after however many years as "working fine"...

Freerider · 02-06-2012, 13:08

So now I just have to rent a power hand planer. Is West System 404 HD filler the product to use for the scarf joint?

Freerider · 02-06-2012, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by minaret

I wouldn't describe an unrotten bulkhead that BROKE IN HALF after however many years as "working fine"...

...either would I. The crazy part is that on closer inspection the 2 pieces weren't even bonded with anything, its just a tongue and groove style joint pushed together. I can't imagine S&S intended the bulkheads to be built this way.

**minaret** · 02-06-2012, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freerider

So now I just have to rent a power hand planer. Is West System 404 HD filler the product to use for the scarf joint?

404 is milled cotton fibers, which does indeed make a very high density filler. But if you have to sand it at all, it's like sanding cement. Also the fibrous nature of 404 means it tends to be a little "fuzzy", especially when mixed thick. I only use it when maximum strength ang gap filling ability is desired. For this I would use 406, plain old colloidal silica. Much better for a tight joint like a scarf. Occasionally I use a mix of the two, but never either one if I will have to sand it. For bonding only. Just mix to mayonnaise consistency, and remember to apply a sealer coat of epoxy first and then chemical bond to it. It'll never come apart! If you can't rent a powerplane (and they are a finicky tool which needs to be carefully tuned, so probably not good to rent), it's easy to do by hand with a $30 low angle block plane. Make sure you use low angle, they are made for end grain and won't "stutter" like a regular plane. I like to use a "scarfer" attachment for a circ saw for smaller stock, super fast. Small stock can also be done on a 10" table saw if it has a high quality featherboard.

**minaret** · 02-06-2012, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freerider

...either would I. The crazy part is that on closer inspection the 2 pieces weren't even bonded with anything, its just a tongue and groove style joint pushed together. I can't imagine S&S intended the bulkheads to be built this way.

Sounds like that bulkhead was built on a Monday...

foolishsailor · 02-06-2012, 13:32

Based on the fact that the joint is running vertically and all the work will be compressing vertically on the panels and not on the joint itself and the joint will only be under compression loads, couldn't he get away with a much easier 8 or even 6 to one scarf joint? He could bang this out using a hand grinder if he didn't have access to proper tools. The silica filler will bridge and air gaps in the joint? Not optimal but easy to do...I wouldn't recommend it myself if you have the tools but doable for someone with only hand tools and less experience using them...

Edit...also the real question that no one has addressed is giving you clamping tips for the panels as I am assuming you have to glue them up in the cabin since the piece will be too big to bring in whole?

Cheechako · 02-06-2012, 13:41

its easy to become a legend in your own mind around here.Oh, now you've got nothing to say? Don't feel like explaining yourself? Wutta pansy...
Way to prove my point...

My point was I dont think we have to resort to childish recess time communication to fix a bulkhead! Not the fact that the bulkhead lasted 33 years even though poorly constructed in the first place!

Cheechako · 02-06-2012, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Based on the fact that the joint is running vertically and all the work will be compressing vertically on the panels and not on the joint itself and the joint will only be under compression loads, couldn't he get away with a much easier 8 or even 6 to one scarf joint? He could bang this out using a hand grinder if he didn't have access to proper tools. The silica filler will bridge and air gaps in the joint? Not optimal but easy to do...I wouldn't recommend it myself if you have the tools but doable for someone with only hand tools and less experience using them...

Edit...also the real question that no one has addressed is giving you clamping tips for the panels as I am assuming you have to glue them up in the cabin since the piece will be too big to bring in whole?

there are other loads involved too. But I guess the answer is NO! the boat will obviously sink immediately without a 12;1 scarf joint!

**minaret** · 02-06-2012, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Based on the fact that the joint is running vertically and all the work will be compressing vertically on the panels and not on the joint itself and the joint will only be under compression loads, couldn't he get away with a much easier 8 or even 6 to one scarf joint? He could bang this out using a hand grinder if he didn't have access to proper tools. The silica filler will bridge and air gaps in the joint? Not optimal but easy to do...I wouldn't recommend it myself if you have the tools but doable for someone with only hand tools and less experience using them...

Edit...also the real question that no one has addressed is giving you clamping tips for the panels as I am assuming you have to glue them up in the cabin since the piece will be too big to bring in whole?

Good point on the clamping. I tend to use a backing piece of ply and screw the joint together to prevent drift, something I'm sure anyone who has clamped a scarf has experienced. This is just one reason I prefer to do my own veneer ( the others being higher quality and bookmatching). The backing piece or pieces also protect the feather edge of the scarf while being moved onto the boat. Don't forget the release agent on the backing pieces, I like packing tape.

sabray · 02-06-2012, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Based on the fact that the joint is running vertically and all the work will be compressing vertically on the panels and not on the joint itself and the joint will only be under compression loads, couldn't he get away with a much easier 8 or even 6 to one scarf joint? He could bang this out using a hand grinder if he didn't have access to proper tools. The silica filler will bridge and air gaps in the joint? Not optimal but easy to do...I wouldn't recommend it myself if you have the tools but doable for someone with only hand tools and less experience using them...

Edit...also the real question that no one has addressed is giving you clamping tips for the panels as I am assuming you have to glue them up in the cabin since the piece will be too big to bring in whole?

The loads will not all be vertical compression . If it's a structural bulkhead at all is unknown . If it is tabbed to the deck and hull it will have little compression on Vertical plane. More likely it will have sheer force against the deck and hull tabbing. Horizontal loads would be more likely.

Freerider · 25-08-2012, 16:42

So I'm finally in the middle of this bulkhead replacement project. I ended up cutting 1 section 44" wide, the widest that will fit through the companionway. I still had enough wood left from the 4'x8' sheet to cut out the 2nd section template, it came out good enough to actually use but the grain runs the opposite way. I was thinking of using it instead of cutting into a new $170 sheet, the joint will be hidden behind cabinetry so I'm not worried about ascetics but about strength. There is no chainplate on this bulkhead and i plan on glassing over the joint anyways.

What do you think? Should i be worried about the horizontal grain?

The piece is 44"L x 10"w, you can see where it will go in the pic below.