Busted shoe!

[Dmeistar]

Hey salty sailors! I dropped the rudder this morning on my 1981 Pacific Seacraft 37, Indy. I noticed that the bronze shoe supporting the rudder from below was cracked all the way through on the leading edge. I'm exploring options for remedying this situation. I've contacted Pacific Seacraft to get a price for a new shoe.

I wanted to float this out to the community and get some opinions on how to proceed. Is this repairable? Its only job is to hold up the rudder (an important job, admittedly), but this happens at the end opposite the crack. The thing is thru bolted onto the skeg with 5x 5/16 carriage bolts. Honestly it could be designed as two pieces that are bolted together...kinda like the quadrant I just took off.

Could I just put a few layers of glass over the crack to keep water out, bolt it back on, and call it a day?

[BillKny]

I once had a cracked piece of bronze in a prop strut. It looked a lot like your photo. It looked to be something easily welded. I took it to the local crackerjack marine welder, and he shook his head.

His explanation was that most bronze alloys are porous enough that after 30 years soaking in saltwater it would contain enough salt inside the metal that it would not melt properly to weld ever again. He tried anyway. It was fascinating to watch. It flowed together, and made a perfect bead, then cracked open again as it cooled. Damn.

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by Dmeistar

Hey salty sailors! I dropped the rudder this morning on my 1981 Pacific Seacraft 37, Indy. I noticed that the bronze shoe supporting the rudder from below was cracked all the way through on the leading edge. I'm exploring options for remedying this situation. I've contacted Pacific Seacraft to get a price for a new shoe.

I wanted to float this out to the community and get some opinions on how to proceed. Is this repairable? Its only job is to hold up the rudder (an important job, admittedly), but this happens at the end opposite the crack. The thing is thru bolted onto the skeg with 5x 5/16 carriage bolts. Honestly it could be designed as two pieces that are bolted together...kinda like the quadrant I just took off.

Could I just put a few layers of glass over the crack to keep water out, bolt it back on, and call it a day?

Here is a new replacement. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Bronze-...IAAOSwVFlUEKe5

[JPA Cate]

Bronze castings, once broken, are not reparable.

You can have a foundry make you up a new one, or take advantage of the link Orion Jim posted, also for a new one.

Ann

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by BillKny

I once had a cracked piece of bronze in a prop strut. It looked a lot like your photo. It looked to be something easily welded. I took it to the local crackerjack marine welder, and he shook his head.

His explanation was that most bronze alloys are porous enough that after 30 years soaking in saltwater it would contain enough salt inside the metal that it would not melt properly to weld ever again. He tried anyway. It was fascinating to watch. It flowed together, and made a perfect bead, then cracked open again as it cooled. Damn.

That welder didn’t stress relive what was welded / braised.

[stormalong]

That ebay price looks to me like a price gouger. I would bet that the bronze casting guy in Port Townsend would cast you a new one for far less than that.

If the boat is on the hard for the winter you have lots of time to find it or have it made.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by BillKny

I once had a cracked piece of bronze in a prop strut. It looked a lot like your photo. It looked to be something easily welded. I took it to the local crackerjack marine welder, and he shook his head.

His explanation was that most bronze alloys are porous enough that after 30 years soaking in saltwater it would contain enough salt inside the metal that it would not melt properly to weld ever again. He tried anyway. It was fascinating to watch. It flowed together, and made a perfect bead, then cracked open again as it cooled. Damn.

Very cool story, Bill!

Even if the EBay seller is gouging, $750 for a new bronze part that lasts (how long has the cracked one been there? 20 years?) that's well worth every penny to maintain the integrity of your steering system - to my mind. Aren't you glad you discovered this whilst on the hard?

Good luck with your repairs, she's a beautiful boat.
LittleWing77

[Spot]

The Ebay one sure looks shiny, but a little different than the OP's pictures which seems to have longer 'straps' going to the skeg, perhaps like the second picture below? The Ebay one looks more like the first picture.

Dmeistar, could you post a couple more pictures, like an angled top and bottom view with the measuring tape please?

Knowing the material type and the length x width x height of the piece without the anode would help to get it quoted as a casting or machining job.

If it was just a matter of keeping water out or grease in, could it gone after with a brass or bronze brazing rod?

My boats are small with bolt-on stainless rudder hardware, all of this 'heavier metal' stuff is exciting....

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by stormalong

That ebay price looks to me like a price gouger. I would bet that the bronze casting guy in Port Townsend would cast you a new one for far less than that.

If the boat is on the hard for the winter you have lots of time to find it or have it made.

+1
Glue it together, clean it up and take it to a foundry. They can sand cast a new one using it as a pattern. I'd be shocked if it cost more than $50.

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

+1
Glue it together, clean it up and take it to a foundry. They can sand cast a new one using it as a pattern. I'd be shocked if it cost more than $50.

Prepare to be shocked....

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

Prepare to be shocked....

I believe you are correct. I can see at least 2-3 hours in labor, the electricity to melt the bronze, cost of the bronze which could be $50 or so by itself.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I believe you are correct. I can see at least 2-3 hours in labor, the electricity to melt the bronze, cost of the bronze which could be $50 or so by itself.

I've had quite a few custom bronze pieces sand cast at Skara Metal Foundry in Mississauga, Ontario from bronze ports to anchor rollers .... they charge by the lb. and bronze is running about $2/lb. right now, they mark it up a little but not much ... maybe to $3-4. Dirt cheap.

[BlueH2Obound]

Yup, $50.00 is a pipe dream!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I've had quite a few custom bronze pieces sand cast at Skara Metal Foundry in Mississauga, Ontario .... they charge by the lb. and bronze is running about $2/lb. right now, the mark it up a little but not much ... maybe to $3. Dirt cheap.

Thanks for the referral. Will keep that in mind for some future plans.

A question, what bronze alloy? Basic, generic bronze for non structural bits or the high strength alloys like C95500 nickel aluminum bronze?

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

+1
Glue it together, clean it up and take it to a foundry. They can sand cast a new one using it as a pattern. I'd be shocked if it cost more than $50.

Even if it is $250, which I doubt, it's a whole lot better that $750.

There is always someone on Ebay asking an outrageous price for something just because they think the buyer is over a barrel and will pay any price.

For those that are unfamiliar with the area, Anacortes to Port Townsend is about a 1-1/2 hour drive and ferry away. The bronze caster there (I don't remember the name) specializes in marine castings and has a very good reputation. I am sure that he casts many pieces at the same time to keep his energy costs down,