Buying a used boat

[Island Time O25]

80% of value of a 20+ years old under 30ft boat is its engine. So I' start there. Having owned 4 25-28ft 25-35 year old boats my personal preference would be 27-28ft run of the mill well known brand with a diesel engine (in no particular order as the boat condiition and PO maintanence are the key factors) - Catalina, Pearson, Oday, Hunter, etc. At that size and vintage you are looking for as little major flaws as possible as the cost to fix them will, not just may, exceed the purchase price. Often several X the purchase price. Unless you are handy or have marine industry friends willing to help for the price of a case of beer.

There are also under the radar or somewwhat local brands which have well made models. There are + and - owning those and for the average 1st time owner may not be ideal solution. But then again you may end up with a sweet deal. I owned Mariner 28 which is as well made as a Sabre 28 for 1/4 of what similar vintage and condition Sabre would go for. All because Sabre is a well known brand name and Mariner is out of business for the past 25 years. But its demise had nothing to do with the quality of their boats, quite the opposite actually - too high production costs during the wrong economic times.

[KiwiKen]

[QUOTE=thomm225;2777904]You can learn crewing for others, but it gets boring quite fast

It's more fun and faster to simply start racing as Skipper on your own boat as soon as you can make the boat sail where you want it to.
/QUOTE]


It depends at what level one is competing, I raced from 1 man P Class as a 9 -11 year old, then into 2 men dinghies, Idlealong, Cherubs, javelins, OK Dinghies and then skiffs, before starting keelboat racing in NZ and Australia, Top level Keelboat sailing needs very slick error free sail handling and boat handling, with a crew working as a well drilled team.
Back in the 60s & 70s the Solent Points series and BLRA races were highly competitive and were excellent training for top level international racing. Hard to get to that level on teach yourself and give it a go.
My last major race in Europe, before I went back to NZ to live, was the infamous 1979 Fastnet, our boat not only finished but won Division 4.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by liquidice

I bought a catalina capri 25 like 5 years ago. 3 seasons in the water. I have definitely learned a lot. This was apparent to me as new marina buoy neighbors have come and gone and have had triumphs and struggles (and collisions and dismastings and been towed) in the time that I have been there. The live aboards like me because I sail a lot and I listen. If I would have waited for a “better “ boat I may not have learned as much. Annual storage/mooring costs more than the boat. So now that I’ve been in awhile, I can see where a more seaworthy vessel like a CD would be cool, as the upfront costs would have evened out. Still, even a “small” boat like mine looks enormous behind a tow vehicle even a ford excursion. A serious commitment if ever there was one.

A Capri 25 would be a great first boat for lake sailing or for most anywhere else within reason.

A Capri 25 completed the Single Handed Transpac Race from San Francisco to Hawaii back in 1986. This race is 2,120 miles.

Several Moore 24's and Merit 25's have also completed the race.

http://sfbaysss.net/archive-shtp-web...tsThru2012.htm

[zoran123]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Or, you could join a sailing club. You'd have no maintenance to do, no slip fees, no insurance and they often have races where you'd get onto a boat as crew and really learn how to sail. Depending on the club, you'd have access to multiple boats. A close friend has gone this route and when I looked at the numbers it really makes sense for him at this point in time. Much later, they will buy a boat.

Learning to sail, smaller is better. That's where you learn best how to read the wind, the water as you feel every little puff etc. Dinghy's are great for that. Laser's are as well. Fast, fun and when you make a mistake you know it right away as you're usually in the water having to right the boat LOL.

This! I joined a yacht racing crew with zero experience. Saturdays were race days 40 footer and it was fantastic but very intense, I had no idea the depth skippers expect from their crews. Learned a lot, cost nothing.

I would go this route first.

[troutmann]

WOW! WOW! WOW!

I had no idea the response I would get from this thread. I am sorry for posting on Friday and camping for a weekend with no cell service. Thanks so much for all the feedback. I guess I should've looked for the other posts regarding the same topic so sorry to the person I annoyed. I will touch on a few questions that were asked and elaborate on myself to give a better idea of my abilities.

First I am very mechanically inclined mechanical engineer...yes I have known many non-mechanically inclined ME's...still boggles my mind . I work in the pulp and paper industry and have knowledge of controls, pneumatics, hydraulics, machine design, etc. So preforming maintenance is just fine with me and I would prefer that. I can determine the condition of mechanical/electrical systems but not rigging/sails/hull condition(even harder when in the water). That was really what I had in mind when I originally posted. I should've specified. I'm a grean horn.


I live in the Atlanta area and will be sailing on Lake Lanier and Lake Alatoona initially. There is a sailing academy here and I agree with the post to get some racing/class exp. My wife and I plan to take the basic keel boat class in the spring and maybe join the sailing club. Based on some posts, If I join then the need for my own boat may go away since they have boats I can use. This may be the best way to go in the case I hate sailing. I doubt that but you never know. I would also be able to try out a few different boats and make a better decision on a purchase.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

[TrentePieds]

Quote: " If I join then the need for my own boat may go away since they have boats I can use. This may be the best way to go in the case I hate sailing. I doubt that but you never know. I would also be able to try out a few different boats and make a better decision on a purchase. "

An there you have it - as you can see, one word answers don't cut it:-)!

And here you are - now that we know where you are. These people will teach you to sail and every other thing you need to know to keep a boat.


Atlanta Yacht Club - Sailing Classes

Good luck to you, and do let us know how you get on :-)!

TrentePieds

[liquidice]

Originally Posted by thomm225

A Capri 25 would be a great first boat for lake sailing or for most anywhere else within reason.

A Capri 25 completed the Single Handed Transpac Race from San Francisco to Hawaii back in 1986. This race is 2,120 miles.

Several Moore 24's and Merit 25's have also completed the race.

http://sfbaysss.net/archive-shtp-web...tsThru2012.htm

Thanks for the shout out! I have had a great experience. CF has been my go to for knowledge, along with some other sites. This one has the best combination of knowledge and attitude. Any time I find myself getting hot about a post, I just block the person! Problem solved! With my small boat, I get a lot of hours on the water, away from the dock and the can and the harbor. I have seen a lot of new skippers in bigger boats crash into fuel docks WAY too hard, because it’s like their 3rd time or whatever and they just don’t get it. Too fast coming in and then too timid to go into reverse and rising voices and CRASH! Into the dock! SPLASH! Into the water! A very stressful and dangerous situation. Screaming. Dockmasters and club members and a gaggle of concerned parties emerge onto the scene like angry ants. My crew and I watch, heads shaking.

Little boats are great to start. I’ve docked lots of times. That’s the only way to get good. Now I’m teaching my crew people and kids. When you have a small cheap boat, you relax a little more.

[troutmann]

[QUOTE=liquidice;2779043]

Thanks for the reply. I am also looking at a couple catalina 25 and 27 on clist. They are not trailer-able, at-least the models I've seen. I think a trailer version would be ideal since I could keep it at my house to work on and not have to pay the slip fees all year. Maybe a portion of the year during spring and summer. My wife and I are going to take the basic keel boat class at Lanier Sailing academy and see how it goes.

I have been watching S/V Delos on Youtube lately. Has anyone seen this channel? Wish I had the guts to quit work and go sailing around the world. A friend turned my on to it and have been hooked. Same friend took me on his hobie cat 16 a couple years ago. I guess these two things got me thinking about sailing and wanting to learn. Maybe one day, god willing with good health and enough money, be able to live aboard a few months a year. Thats a dream but first I have to learn the basics.

[liquidice]

Yes the Catalina Capri 25 that I have is not practical to trailer launch. It has a 48” minimum depth with a fixed keel. I crane launch from Waukegan and I mostly day sail out of Chicago from May to October. I have done it for three years now. My annual expenses for a launch and a haul, mast up storage on my trailer and a mooring ball with parking are $2200. I have learned a lot; I knew more than I did. I took my mom out after hip replacement. My sons are sailing with me. My brother crews a lot and last season I had him take us off the ball and out a few times. (Watch the gusts!) Do the classes, get out there! I was a dinghy sailor through park district programs as a kid so I knew how to do it pretty much. Still learned a lot though! Especially about outboard motors...
Good luck with your endeavors.

[Jdaltonlayland]

Originally Posted by troutmann

Hello,

I new to the forum and I am looking for some advice on purchasing a used sailboat. This would be my first sailboat but have owned a couple small motor boats. My wife an I have a goal to live aboard a 40-50' cat later in life but want to start learning now on a smaller boat in fresh water. I am looking at a few 25' mono hulls and my question is this. What are the top 5 things you would check or require when purchasing a used sailboat? This could be a feature based response or function based. Just one word answers are cool too or reference to a similar thread. Many thanks in advance for your feedback.

First question is what’s your budget ?
1. I would look at the condition of the sails and engine first ... lots of money spent here if not in good condition
2. Will you spent the night ? If so, you need storage and probably a safe working stove.
3. Winches .. are they sell tailing ?
4. Sail controls ... does the traveler work easily ..,does it have fair lead controls ? Does the head sail furl easily ?
5. How much wood does it have outside ...more is more work
6. Leaks .. where are they ? Windows good ?
7. Does it have a trailer ?
8. How old is the bottom paint ?
9. Instruments .... more is better ... wind speed and direction ... boat speed ... GPS ?
10. Small can be tender .... don’t buy a boat that scares you ... make sure you can reef the main .. check the design for speed ... faster is more fun ..
PRF ratings tell you how fast it is ..

[dbraymer]

You are getting tons of great advice, but actually on an offset topic.

The real possible difficulty is only partially related to the actual boat. Two people bumming around in the topics on a 40-50 foot boat sounds like a dream, and it can be, but:

You will move from place to place really slowly. Voyages of significance will leave both people sleep deprived for up to several days.


How do you and your wife do on camping, hiking, travel adventures? You said that you go camping, a good start.

A boat is a slow moving travel trailer, that you cannot plug into 110 VAC any old time.


A possible very low cost test of the whole idea is to buy a used 20-22 foot travel trailer, and take off for a few thousand miles. Drive at least 10 hours every day, park over night in truck stops with no 110 VAC.


a 20 -22 foot travel trailer has about as much room inside as a 45 foot boat (Cats have somewhat more room)


This "see America" tour test will show you how you do trapped (possible bad choice of words here) together, making food on the propane stove, squeezing past one another endlessly, having minimal refrigeration. When you get to a park, you will have set up and take down efforts, similar to what would happen when a boat arrives/departs a marina.


If you have a great time, and think the boat idea is the way to go, you can sell the travel trailer for a modest loss, and do the same thing the following year with a mid sized boat.

This skips the fix-up-the-little-boat efforts, is one heck of a lot cheaper, and you get to see the good old USA for a full summer or a month or so. If it all goes bad in the trailer, you can just park it in a used trailer lot, buzz on home and take your losses.


My wife and I have a 22 foot trailer (in MI) and a 47 foot boat (in FL). She loves the trailer, but hates the boat, so my method here does not always work. go figure...


As to the boat itself, pay particular attention to alternator capability.

[YachtBroker]

Catalina 25-27 have held up better for age than most other builders. IMHO

[scareygary]

I am of the opinion that there is a good DEAL of difference in 25' ers, and it makes a huge difference, but it all depends on so many factors. However, if you buy a really cheap, light boat with a swing keel, you will not have the same experience as with a heavier, more ballasted boat (with the tradeoffs being increased issues with trailering, etc.) I currently own a 26', fin keel, diesel powered boat I bought with a good trailer for less than 5 K. It's a great boat that is user friendly and quite stable. For many years I owned a 25' Catalina swinger that cost much more, initially, but was scary in any sort of rough water or big wind, or both. The Catalina was fine for protected waters and many circumstances, but the current boat is SO much better balanced, drier, safer, and much more likely to encourage one to keep sailing. My 2 cents. Always consider who designed the boat, imho. Some 'off brands' are far superior to the cheap , 'made-for-the masses' production boats that are thrown together for the sole purpose of making a big profit for the manufacturer. A little research should guide you in the right direction, but I'd say, consider something besides the most 'popular' brands....or boats made by powerboat companies who made sailboats in the 70s to profit from the first oil 'crisis'. Many of those boats are, indeed, 'throwaway Dixie Cups' as someone said earlier. My Swedish boat (a 1976 with much newer Yanmar that came with her) could get you to Alaska or Hawaii tomorrow....pretty safely....

[Cheechako]

1. Hull (avoid a cored hull)
2. Deck (water saturation can be an issue as almost all decks are cored)
3. Sails (they can be very expensive)
4. Engine
5. Tanks. Many leak or are about to after 10 years or so. Especially problematic if they are under the floor/cabinetry etc.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by troutmann

Hello,

I new to the forum and I am looking for some advice on purchasing a used sailboat. This would be my first sailboat but have owned a couple small motor boats. My wife an I have a goal to live aboard a 40-50' cat later in life but want to start learning now on a smaller boat in fresh water. I am looking at a few 25' mono hulls and my question is this. What are the top 5 things you would check or require when purchasing a used sailboat? This could be a feature based response or function based. Just one word answers are cool too or reference to a similar thread. Many thanks in advance for your feedback.

You are getting plenty of advise so I will take a different tack and share my transitions with you given your stated long range plans.

I have owned three sailing yachts (a sailing yacht is a sailboat with living and cooking facilities). My first was a Tanzer 22 fixed keel sailed on San Pablo and San Francisco Bays. The second was a San Juan 28 sailed in Puget Sound, British Columbia and even to Alaska. My third is a Tayana Vancouver 42 sailed roundtrip to Hawaii from Washington.

I never joined a yacht club and put the money into the boats instead, teaching myself how to sail; I don't race, I cruise. The transition from the first to second boat was an easy one, the biggest difference was learning to live with a diesel engine and keep it happy. The transition to the 42 was bigger than I imagined; primarily the number of systems, complexity, and expenses. I suspect transitioning from a monohull to a catamaran of size will be equally challenging.

I never liked the idea of rigging, de-rigging, and trailering the boat every time I wanted to sail, so I kept the Tanzer at a marina slip which was an added expense. The last two boats have been buoy moored by my home 24/7/365 for 23 years that has saved me a lot of money; something to think about as the cost of boat ownership dramatically rises with the size of the boat.

Welcome to sailing.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH