Buying advice - Survey showed excessive moisture below waterline

[Nor]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

The survey findings were proven correct when they drilled holes and water poured out. Refer back to my prior post…. If you can get it for (at least) $100k below market for a boat in better condition then it might be an ok deal. Otherwise I’d advise you to pass on it. This is a project

PS- Have you asked the seller if there have been any insurance claims on the boat? If it’s been written off by an insurance company then you might only be able to get a salvage title. That would have implications for future value and insurability.

Edit - corrected for measuring device https://my.rs-online.com/web/p/moisture-meters/1799510

However the keels that water poured out of are sacrificial and independent and can easily be repaired or replaced. The hulls could have dried up more since the first measurements?

[Nor]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Surely to do a fair comparison it should be the same meter that is used to see if the hull has dried out, perhaps suggesting the antifoul paint was wet the first time around.

Pete

Ideally yes, but if have to get someone to go back with the dame type device.
It was wet also above the water line / antifoul paint, so it couldn't just have been the wet antifoul

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by Nor

Ideally yes, but if have to get someone to go back with the dame type device.
It was wet also above the water line / antifoul paint, so it couldn't just have been the wet antifoul

I get the impression you really want this boat. This discussion is all a lot of conjecture by people with second hand knowledge. While it’s good to get other opinions, trust your surveyor or hire another surveyor for a second professional opinion before you move forward. (You might get a reduced rate if you ask the second surveyor to only focus on hull condition.) There’s enough $ on the line to make that a prudent move.

[SY Harmony]

@nor
I’d get your surveyor to come back out and retest with his original meter.

[Nor]

Originally Posted by SY Harmony

@nor
I’d get your surveyor to come back out and retest with his original meter.

Unfortunately he's not available for a few weeks, so he couldn't come back. Would have to get someone else, I'm looking into that. Still, there seems to be a few red flags.

[Bbolino]

A hull that reads wet everywhere is probably something other than moisture. The Tremex is basically reading surface conductivity, which is influenced by moisture, type of paint, construction materials.
Did the surveyor sound the hull, and did it sound OK? if no get a different surveyor. A wet hull has a very distinctive sound
If the boat was just hauled for survey, it will always show wet unless its left on the hard for several hours to dry
You could have the hull infrared scanned which is more accurate than a meter
but a sounding hammer is pretty reliable
The odds of an entire hull being wet are pretty low

[Nor]

Originally Posted by Bbolino

A hull that reads wet everywhere is probably something other than moisture. The Tremex is basically reading surface conductivity, which is influenced by moisture, type of paint, construction materials.
Did the surveyor sound the hull, and did it sound OK? if no get a different surveyor. A wet hull has a very distinctive sound
If the boat was just hauled for survey, it will always show wet unless its left on the hard for several hours to dry
You could have the hull infrared scanned which is more accurate than a meter
but a sounding hammer is pretty reliable
The odds of an entire hull being wet are pretty low

I decided to not buy this boat.
The boat had been drying for 24 hours. It also showed wet on infrared. They also used a hammer to tap the hull.


Thanks everyone for your advice in the process!

[Elie]

Originally Posted by smj

For what it’s worth the Mahe is solid laminate below waterline and foam cored above. I have little faith in moisture meters as I’ve seen quite a few false readings so maybe a core sample above waterline in the foam core would be a reasonable thing to do?

I would agree with this statement totally. These meters give little information and are often in error by large. A core plug removal if the seller would agree will tell you the truth and maybe help you make a good deal.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Bbolino

A hull that reads wet everywhere is probably something other than moisture. The Tremex is basically reading surface conductivity.

The Tramex Skipper measures capacitance, not quite the same as conductivity.
In my test of various meters, I dropped the Tramex due to inconsistency and unrepeatability.

There are also issues with thermography and even more with uncertified thermographers who believe they understand the equipment without training and certification.

This article covers both issues. Moisture Meter Mythology and Flir thermal imager

[ovidiunelu]

My advice is do the same thing to a similar boat and if the reading are different just walk away, walk away.

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by Lionshooter

I wouldn't walk away. I would run like hell. Good luck...

Like in the movie Forest Gump..: "RUN Forest, RUN...

If you OWNED your own boatyard where the boat could sit for months drying out and no cost, and you had workers on the payroll who could work on the boat at literally no cost, during their down time, then maybe (thin at that) the boat might be a good project.

Other than that: walk away.

[CaptainRivet]

Run….that Mahe is wet like a sponge. I know I went accidentally through that process with my FP.


I have a FP40 Lavezzi and by luck went through all that with a limited costs as we discovered that from a slam damage done by a big pyramid wave to the boat.
Problem on ALL FP is the coat between gelcoat and polyester resin that keeps some moisture and causes high readings. It’s the same coat on the whole ship, works well above but it’s the devil on the underwatership.
My boat builder that fixed mine said it’s kind a filler/primer for the gelcoat.

On the underwatership that coat causes 99% time osmosis as this coat gets permanently „wet“, as the polyester resin behind it gets wet and start osmosis. the only solution here is sandblast all gelcoat and that primer away till 15cm above waterline and most likely min the 1st layer of fiberglass that’s affected.That was on mine, very lightly used and stored a lot time on land so damage to underwatership/core was small. We put 2-5 layers of 450g mats with vinylester resin to restore and enforce stability of hull.
After 4 month drying, I was under supervision of the specialist (working inside ) restoring and reenforcing the underwatership during 5 month while the fiberglass specialist and boat builder inside fixed and improved by 400% the internal structure of the cat (eg replace all glued bulkheads and stringers with laminated ones in epoxy). Only material was 13000Euro, plus 4000Euro for sandblasting underwatership that took 3 weeks to not cause more damage to hull. the drydock and specialist was paid by insurance for the inside damage for about 80000Euro.

Difference is on the foam cores above watership that coat acts differently, the outer layer of the coat always contains some moistures but it doesn‘t penetrate through (Core is bone dry). We know because we needed to cut a part out due to cracks from inside due to overload of structure (due to wave slam damage) and could see and test with that part what’s going on, it was bone dry but moisture reading above 50, measured inside and outside. We cut in the middle through and found a thicker layer of this primer/filler but it was dry. It was original, no repairs done before. Surveyor and boat builder agrees the humidity measured must be in the gelcoat and on this spots with thicker filler the gelcoat stores more humidity.

That’s why you have always high humidity readings on the above waterships on FP. What you sometimes get is gelcoat blistering that means the blisters develop in the gelcoat, grind them out and repair with new gelcoat, nothing serious, just visual defect like cracking.

[CaptainRivet]

Just want to add, older Lavezzi till 2005 have a deffective Gelcoat from factory where this issue comes up at 3-5years. Mine is late 2005/2006 model and i already have the "improved" gelcoat found on todays FP too. If you have white, its the same gelcoat till today.
That improved means water penetrating through is reduced means
1) visible damage underwatership comes later 10years + but it will come, thats also valid for Mahe's. If i have one drill through and see if wet. If not remove all antifouling and put 3 coats of hempel majestic thick primer as osmosis protection. Then 2 coats light primer as working surface and on rhis hard antifouling or coppercoat.
2) works permanently on overwatership, the gelcoat blistering is signnificantly reduced.

[bil56]

this way of measuring hull moisture is stupid, always scrape off the antifouling and measure directly on the gelcoat, and better 2 days later ...

./.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by bil56

this way of measuring hull moisture is stupid, always scrape off the antifouling and measure directly on the gelcoat, and better 2 days later ...

./.

My friend, a top notch surveyor request min 4 days out of water so that moisture results are relaible. When inside and outside differ, antifouling need to be scrapped off where they are to high to exclude its the antifouling.
If they show high values and no osmosis signs like blisters then drilling small holes like jedi said in areas with high levels.
Also a source is when lifting, look at the weight. If its much more heavy the chances are high core is soaked.

On FP the foam core is squared 5cm by 5cm cubics that was solted, filled with resin during production and so these cubics are isolated by resin. Connects both sides of lamination and helps to keep water ingress local.