Can I make my own copper coating?

[lateral]

Two years on Ultra ll no hull scrub In last year and no appreciable loss in speed.
My copper coat was a forest after first year.
Just slime currently.

[GRIT]

I've had a few folks ask about our anti-foul experiment, and I've got enough information to give a short update.

First off, we're still building our boat, and our energy to dive on the boat to scrape soft growth is limited, as we're also moving down the coast every week-end, while working during the week.

We beached the boat for inspection, and the installation of through hulls in late June, and there was no growth on the hulls, other than the 6 spots I mention in the next paragraph. No hard or soft growth. The boat was in the water overwinter, from Sept 28, 2019, until we beached it.

October 23, 2020: The results, regards barnacles, are very good. We had several (6) colonies of barnacles and muscles on the hulls. All about the size of my fist, and all in areas that got sanded through, during our initial polishing. (and on the plastic speedo through hull fittings)

The results for soft growth were inconclusive, but I can say that we got a lot of grass growing since we arrived in the USA, (mid September) but had nothing at all growing on the hulls in Canada. We're now in the Chesapeake, so we're talking northern waters. Whether it's geographical, or seasonal, or what, I don't know. But there was nothing until we reached Long Island Sound. And we cleaned the boat every week since, of grass.

We hauled out last week to do work on the daggerboards, and raise the anti-fouling to 4" above the actual waterline. We considered using Copper coat for that last 4", but the forecast was very wet and application during "wet" periods is not recommended. We considered using our own recipe, but we didn't have the materials, and didn't want to be out of the water any longer than necessary. (It sometimes takes a while to get the copper.) This haulout was supposed to happen in December, in Key Largo. Since we had to stay north of Hatteras until Nov 1, and GYB was so close, and we weren't doing much anyway, we opted to haulout right away.

Being in a bit of a hurry, we decided to paint the entire bottom with Trinidad SR. It was primarily laziness, but there you go. We gave it two thin coats over the copper, and two good coats in the raised area.

The recipe, from my notes:

THE RECIPE FOR OUR COPPER BOTTOM: 120Z, MIXED (8+4), ARK COMPOSITES EPOXY, 5OZ OF 90-99% ALCOHOL
, 200g COPPER FLAKES (325 MESH) AND 1000g COPPER SPHERES (325 MESH). ROLL ON THIN, THREE COATS, THEN SAND WITH 120 AND A SOFT PAD, THEN SAND WITH ORBITAL SANDER AND 320 GRIT. THIS MIX COVERS APPROXIMATELY 45 SQ FEET.

We tried several application methods, including spraying it on, and this was what worked best. If the mixture thickens up, add a bit more alchohol. It evaporates fairly quickly, so roll it on quickly, and thin.

We tried several recipes, and different kinds of flakes, and this mixture was the easiest to apply.

When finished, it was as smooth as most boat's topsides, not splotchy, and no orange peel. (After sanding)

When we have the cruising kitty built, and we're ready to go, we'll sand off the paint, and touch up the copper where it's thin.

It's not maintenance free, but 99% of the boat had absolutely no hard growth.

There's about 3 times more copper in this mixture than coppercoat, but the epoxy is 100% solids, and I think this is a downside. I'd like to do a test with an epoxy paint, in lieu of real epoxy. That's for another day...

This was a test for our own use. Do as you please, but we're not advocating anyone try this, or follow our recipe. Basically; read, then forget this post. I'm not responsible for anything you do. Blah, blah, blah, the usual disclaimers...

Cheers all, and good luck.
Paul.

[betwys1]

Originally Posted by WhiteHill

Just been published, to add to the discussion:

https://sailingbritican.com/coppercoat-problems/

Your copper patch coat seems to work well. Who makes that or if it is a home brew, what are the ingredients?

Brian W

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Cadence

If you want to be a paint scientist. Buy the best paint you can and mix in the hottest pepper powder you can find. Not high tech but works.

If it works then why don't the paint manufacturers do it?

[lateral]

Originally Posted by GRIT

I've had a few folks ask about our anti-foul experiment, and I've got enough information to give a short update.

First off, we're still building our boat, and our energy to dive on the boat to scrape soft growth is limited, as we're also moving down the coast every week-end, while working during the week.

We beached the boat for inspection, and the installation of through hulls in late June, and there was no growth on the hulls, other than the 6 spots I mention in the next paragraph. No hard or soft growth. The boat was in the water overwinter, from Sept 28, 2019, until we beached it.

October 23, 2020: The results, regards barnacles, are very good. We had several (6) colonies of barnacles and muscles on the hulls. All about the size of my fist, and all in areas that got sanded through, during our initial polishing. (and on the plastic speedo through hull fittings)

The results for soft growth were inconclusive, but I can say that we got a lot of grass growing since we arrived in the USA, (mid September) but had nothing at all growing on the hulls in Canada. We're now in the Chesapeake, so we're talking northern waters. Whether it's geographical, or seasonal, or what, I don't know. But there was nothing until we reached Long Island Sound. And we cleaned the boat every week since, of grass.

We hauled out last week to do work on the daggerboards, and raise the anti-fouling to 4" above the actual waterline. We considered using Copper coat for that last 4", but the forecast was very wet and application during "wet" periods is not recommended. We considered using our own recipe, but we didn't have the materials, and didn't want to be out of the water any longer than necessary. (It sometimes takes a while to get the copper.) This haulout was supposed to happen in December, in Key Largo. Since we had to stay north of Hatteras until Nov 1, and GYB was so close, and we weren't doing much anyway, we opted to haulout right away.

Being in a bit of a hurry, we decided to paint the entire bottom with Trinidad SR. It was primarily laziness, but there you go. We gave it two thin coats over the copper, and two good coats in the raised area.

The recipe, from my notes:

THE RECIPE FOR OUR COPPER BOTTOM: 120Z, MIXED (8+4), ARK COMPOSITES EPOXY, 5OZ OF 90-99% ALCOHOL
, 200g COPPER FLAKES (325 MESH) AND 1000g COPPER SPHERES (325 MESH). ROLL ON THIN, THREE COATS, THEN SAND WITH 120 AND A SOFT PAD, THEN SAND WITH ORBITAL SANDER AND 320 GRIT. THIS MIX COVERS APPROXIMATELY 45 SQ FEET.

We tried several application methods, including spraying it on, and this was what worked best. If the mixture thickens up, add a bit more alchohol. It evaporates fairly quickly, so roll it on quickly, and thin.

We tried several recipes, and different kinds of flakes, and this mixture was the easiest to apply.

When finished, it was as smooth as most boat's topsides, not splotchy, and no orange peel. (After sanding)

When we have the cruising kitty built, and we're ready to go, we'll sand off the paint, and touch up the copper where it's thin.

It's not maintenance free, but 99% of the boat had absolutely no hard growth.

There's about 3 times more copper in this mixture than coppercoat, but the epoxy is 100% solids, and I think this is a downside. I'd like to do a test with an epoxy paint, in lieu of real epoxy. That's for another day...

This was a test for our own use. Do as you please, but we're not advocating anyone try this, or follow our recipe. Basically; read, then forget this post. I'm not responsible for anything you do. Blah, blah, blah, the usual disclaimers...

Cheers all, and good luck.
Paul.

Awesome, cheers for your recipe.
That is a lot of Cu.
I'm going to have another go on next HO.
All my Cu is still under the Ultra!
Sand back to Cu, then apply new brew.
Very thin coats are a must it seems.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GRIT

.............

We tried several application methods, including spraying it on, and this was what worked best. If the mixture thickens up, add a bit more alchohol. It evaporates fairly quickly, so roll it on quickly, and thin.

............

There's about 3 times more copper in this mixture than coppercoat, but the epoxy is 100% solids, and I think this is a downside. I'd like to do a test with an epoxy paint, in lieu of real epoxy. That's for another day...

.................

The epoxy may have been 100% solids but it isn't as soon as you add the alcohol!

I agree with adding the alcohol as you apply the mix as IMO, you want the alcohol to evaporate out as the epoxy is curing. The volatile alcohol leaves the cured epoxy somewhat porous allowing seawater to react with the copper below the finished cured surface.

Just my two cents....

[GRIT]

According to my notes: The 12 oz of epoxy covers approx 45 square feet for one coat, put on thin. So about 350ml to cover 4m2.

There is roughly the same volume of copper added to the epoxy, so the total volume would be closer to 700ml.

I'd normally use metric, but metric mixing cups are not available in my area.

I'm just quoting my personal notes. I don't remember if I guestimated the area, or actually measured the covered area.

Cheers.
Paul.

[betwys1]

Originally Posted by I14

In the 90's my company made the original Coppercoat here in NZ. It was a polyester gelcoat designed for in-mould application as an in-situ antifouling. As has been said it sometimes worked brilliantly and sometimes was disastrous and eventually we discontinued it. The epoxy based one followed some years later and it works by having a very high copper powder loading and a particular grade and fineness of copper powder. The powder needs to be dispersed into the epoxy using high shear to break up any agglomerates.

Bingo! It looks like you pointed to the principal reason some people find copper loaded anti-fouling a dud, 'I14'. Besides using tiny flakes not roundish particles, the agglomerations need not just stirring, not even vigorous stirring, but AGGRESSIVE beating immediately before use.

Brian W

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

If it works then why don't the paint manufacturers do it?

It's to simple. Try it on two slabs of wood in a tidal barnacle area. Use a slab with and without the pepper. You might be amazed.

[pbmaise]

Originally Posted by Bunji

Huh! I quiet like the idea of having my bottom encapsulated in epoxy (barrier coat) , why on earth would I want to remove it, it’s what keeps the water out

Former epoxy boat owner. This summer I helped the new owner haul out and bottom paint. For ten years I user a plastic scrapper to remove any hard growth before it was larger than about 3mm.

This past year the new owner failed to keep up the scrapping and the boat was attacked by teredo worms. They drilled perfectly round holes about 6mm in diameter and up to 10mm deep
My theory is either the short time or glass fiber is the only thing that prevented total loss of vessel due to the hole depth getting deep.

Had one layer of epoxy been laced with copper...my bet is it would have killed the teredo.

I agree with others it would not stop the growth from beginning. So you would still get a carpet of growth that just lived on the surface and slowed the boat down. Big deal to some. So what if sitting at anchor or cruising slowly?

Besides isn't the main intention to prevent teredo damage?

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

... the boat was attacked by teredo worms. They drilled perfectly round holes about 6mm in diameter and up to 10mm deep.

Teredo worms do not eat fiberglass.

[Bycrick]

Instead of teredos, maybe they were the dreaded polyestermites.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

Instead of teredos, maybe they were the dreaded polyestermites.