Canvas Sewing Machine Questions...

[Kaimana]

Originally Posted by TooCoys

What determines whether a sewing machine is suitable for canvas work or not? .... is it simply a matter of motor power?

I'm a professional sailmaker. I had a small loft in San Mateo in the Bay Area, sewing crusing sails for my friends and acquaintances to earn the money I needed to go cruising on my 37-foot Searunner cutter (you'd be surprised how MANY "friends and acquaintances" you have if you're a sailmaker with a cruising boat).

After reading all the posts here, I have to conclude that you've ALL got home sewing machines of one kind or another, even the so-called Sailrite machines.

I use a Singer 107 W1 with a "puller" (about $1,000 extra) that was made around 1922, for all my sail sewing; I have made 10-oz mainsails for 60-footers with that machine. The "head" alone weighs about 75 pounds! I use a straight-stitch Singer 211 walking foot machine for all my cover and cushion work.

Even though my family's main business is a boat building shop, we mostly make sailboats, and I make all the sails for them. Teaching my kids now.



1. Yes, I've seen repairs done with Sailrite machines. They're OK, but really lightweight, and you just can't sew into the clew, tack, or head area of any sail over about 5 oz in weight, because the lightweight machines simply won't do it.

2. A straight-stitch machine of any kind is NOT even a sail repair machine, let alone a sail-making machine; you need zigzag stitching so the sailcloth does not unravel across a seam.

Do you want to do this right? Or do you want to do it half-basted, spend almost as much money on it, and end up with an inferior machine that just won't do the job?

If you can only afford one machine, get a good zigzag 107 W1 or G1; cause you can make covers and cushions with it too; it's just not as easy as using a walking foot machine. If you're ONLY GOING TO DO CUSHIONS AND COVERS, and will never try to make or repair sails, get a good HEAVY DUTY walking foot machine.

Here's a recent eBay listing of a Singer 107 G1, a zigzag sailmaking machine which is essentially the same as my 107 W1. It's complete with table and 1 hp motor with CLUTCH. https://www.ebay.com/itm/14398629888...kAAOSw9apgWe3K. If I didn't already have one, I'd buy it; this is a good price.



Yeah, it's huge. But the whole thing doesn't need to go with you when you go cruising; that would mean a 2,000-watt generator too, and gasoline on the boat. What a pain, not to mention another 200 pounds! So I left the motor and original table in my garage ashore.

To take on the boat cruising, I made a lightweight folding table with a foot treadle crank and a plywood flywheel with sheet lead stapled around the rim to give it some inertia. Made a watertight box to keep this and the machine head in. The box lived on one of the quarter-berths in my boat. When I got into a new harbor, I'd set it up in the cockpit under the awning, then row around soliciting sail repair and cover repair, plus new covers (I took a roll each of green, yellow, and blue SunBrella fabric on the cruise, and reordered whenever I got low).

I made enough money I never had to go ashore to get a job, had fun sewing in the sun, wind and sometimes rain, and made lots of friends because I fixed their sails. MY sails were always in top shape too!

You know what? Knowing how to sew, and having the RIGHT tool to do it with, is FUN! If you've got a machine like this, and know how to use it, you are "Da Man" or "Da Woman" to know in the anchorage.

Have fun cruising; see you out there!

With Warm Aloha, Tim

[Bill_Giles]

There is a lot of talk about ‘walking feet’. I learned to use a sewing machine with my mother when my dad was off to WWII. Walking feet are for wimps, damn it, you are in charge of the material, make it do what you need it to do. My wife’s machine has a walking foot, it is very useful for quilting.

[Bill_Giles]

You have got it made man.

[Dave9111]

For boat canvas you really only need a straight stitch machine.

Household machines are limited to V69 thread. Coats and Clark made a line of "Outdoor Thread" that is about V69 and is pretty nice thread. Very much like Dabond thread. Walmart sold it for years but has not recently.

Here it is:

https://www.amazon.com/D71-0001-Outd...8977986&sr=8-4

And no, I don't make any money via that link.

V69 is the minimum thread size you want to use for canvas used outside.
V92 is heavier and better. V138 is even heavier and even better. The heavier thread will last longer in the sun. Only use Polyester thread on outside projects. Nylon rots. If you feel adventurous, you can try using Tenara thread which doesn't rot. I haven't gone down that road. V138 Dabond lasts for a very long time outside. I have heard horror stories of people trying to use Tenara type thread.
If you stick with the thread above or Dabond or Dabond "type" bonded polyester thread you will ok.

I think that the little Sailrite machines can use V92 thread. But they have Class 15 bobbins so they are limited in how much thread can be put on them. Class 15 bobbins are the standard household sewing machine bobbin size.

You can sew a lot of canvas without a walking foot machine, but its harder. If you use seamstick tape (sold by Sailrite and others) it will stick the seam together and eliminate slippage. But it won't make the material move through the machine as nicely as a walking foot machine will.

You can buy walking foot attachments for household machines.
In general, they are worthless.

If you want a walking foot machine, buy a real walking foot machine.

Keep in mind that an industrial straight stitch non-walking foot machine will, in general, work better than any household machine.

Likewise, an industrial walking foot machine will typically work better than most small Sailrite small walking foot machines, etc. Sailrite sells their small walking foot machines, but they also sell larger industrial walking foot machines. They sell industrial zig zag machines as well.

An industrial walking foot machine head (just the machine) will weigh about 70 lbs more or less. Add a table and a motor, servo or clutch and it will get above 150 lbs pretty quickly.
A standard industrial machine table is 4 feet long and has steel legs.

It all depends on what you want. If you have the $$. How much space you have. And how much sewing you are going to do.

Before you make judgements about "how much is too much to pay for a machine"; get a quote on a simple canvas job. Quality marine canvas is between $8 and $25/yard, depending on what you buy and were. I'm going to guess that most people sewing boat canvas as a business are going to price out their labor at $40 to $60/hr. I would guess that material costs are typically about 25% of the price of a project, while 75% of it is labor and overhead cost. So if you have $100 worth of materials, you will have $300 worth of labor.

Someone mentioned sewing Eisenglass (plastic windows) into canvas. That can be a tough job even with a walking foot machine. I wouldn't attempt that with a household machine. Have you priced out high quality Eisenglass recently?? Not cheap. Screw up a few yards of that and you will not be happy! Plus after you screw it up, you will have to rip out all of the stitches and buy new materials just to "try it again".

I sew a lot of covers for machines and have modified some sails for my own boat. I have both walking foot and zig zag industrial machines. I also have some household machines from the old days - Necchi's and Pfaff's.

You will see some "Industrial Strength" sewing machines on Ebay. Those are typically old metal machines being sold "industrial" machines. They are still household machines. They are NOT industrial machines.

A conventional clutch motor for an industrial machine weighs about 45 lbs. Many household machines weigh less than 45 lbs, including the motor!
Its like night and day.

Don't confuse the two.

Dave

[mvweebles]

Yesterday I spent about 6 hours sewing a screen door for my Ford E150 camper van using a 25 year old Kenmore that I bought new for about $250 at the time. It's a good machine, but clearly just middle of the road. But it goes through many layers of sunbrella such as corners.

But I wish I had my Thompson Mini Walker handy. While the Kenmore sews fine, a walking foot is really helpful for me. Nothing is more discouraging than buying a bunch of fabric and supplies, spending an hour cutting pieces, ironing fold-over hems, notching corners, only to have it compromised by 5 minutes of sewing and not being experienced enough to control slippage. As careful as I am, the end result is just not as good as it should be.

I hope it works out for the OP. But I wouldn't be surprised if after all is said and done, he wishes he'd spent an extra $500 on a walking foot machine.

Peter

[Elleroo]

It seems that most on this thread are not looking at a machine to carry on a cruising boat.

I've got a 44 yr old Reads Sailmaker, that resembles the Sailrite very closely. It does a fair job, and smaller work and some repairs.
I trained as a sailmaker in the loft of a very well known sailmaker in Sydney, and used Pfaff industrial machines exclusively, until the boss was given an old Durkopp. That Durkopp was a smoother machine than the Pfaffs, and when we had to look inside, it had proper ball bearings where the others have brass or bronze bushes.
If you are wanting a proper full time working sailmaking machine, go to Solent Sewing machines n UK. They use Durkopp Adler machines as a base, then make the longer arms and shafts to make machines up to 4ft under the arm. Very much not cheap, but having used one, they are Rolls Royce compared to a Chevy.

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by Moontide

Toocoys, what brand/model is the machine that can do the 3 layers of leather?

Most of the older Singers can do it according to my research.

However the 66 seems to be the most popular. Reason being is that it has an 8 to 8.5 inch throat, and about 7 inches of height to get large pieces through the machine. It can also accept up to size 21 needles. Additionally, if for some reason it needs adjustments, it's all mechanical, made of machined stainless steel and cast iron, and is ridiculously easy to take apart and adjust.

I just ordered a 1.5amp motor to replace the old Singer .5 am that was on there.

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by Kaimana

You know what? Knowing how to sew, and having the RIGHT tool to do it with, is FUN!

Not discounting your post, but you know what else is FUN! Money. Money is fun. Not having money.... not so much fun.

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I hope it works out for the OP. But I wouldn't be surprised if after all is said and done, he wishes he'd spent an extra $500 on a walking foot machine.

Peter

You underestimate my hard headed persistence sir.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Yesterday I spent about 6 hours sewing a screen door for my Ford E150 camper van using a 25 year old Kenmore that I bought new for about $250 at the time. It's a good machine, but clearly just middle of the road. But it goes through many layers of sunbrella such as corners.

But I wish I had my Thompson Mini Walker handy. While the Kenmore sews fine, a walking foot is really helpful for me. Nothing is more discouraging than buying a bunch of fabric and supplies, spending an hour cutting pieces, ironing fold-over hems, notching corners, only to have it compromised by 5 minutes of sewing and not being experienced enough to control slippage. As careful as I am, the end result is just not as good as it should be.

I hope it works out for the OP. But I wouldn't be surprised if after all is said and done, he wishes he'd spent an extra $500 on a walking foot machine.

Peter

This is about how I felt after my new cushion and new cover project. I used a good 'home' machine and my fabrics were not super heavy...but still had issues with slippage that made the project go from 'great' to 'good' in my head. A walking foot machine would have been nice, some of that self-stick basting tape might have helped too.


Has anyone found a lower cost walking foot machine that has the settings or cams for a 3 or 4 point zigzag stitch?

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

.............. I'm going to guess that most people sewing boat canvas as a business are going to price out their labor at $40 to $60/hr. ..........

$100 per hour would be a better guess, at least in urban parts of the USA. That's what I paid for a couple different repairs.

That convinced me to buy a old Singer machine that's capable of small jobs. I can re-stitch bimini panels and make covers. No sails.

And as for an entire new bimini top, I paid the man. This takes more than a sewing machine, it takes skill and experience.

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by rwidman

$100 per hour would be a better guess, at least in urban parts of the USA. .

Having had one settee in the salon recovered in February, the labor rate we paid was $65/hr.

Labor was 64% of our final invoice.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

...

Before you make judgements about "how much is too much to pay for a machine"; get a quote on a simple canvas job. Quality marine canvas is between $8 and $25/yard, depending on what you buy and were. I'm going to guess that most people sewing boat canvas as a business are going to price out their labor at $40 to $60/hr. I would guess that material costs are typically about 25% of the price of a project, while 75% of it is labor and overhead cost. So if you have $100 worth of materials, you will have $300 worth of labor. ...

Too many decades ago, a friend of our needed some drapes made for his house. After getting quotes for drapes, he bought a very nice sewing machine, took some classes and made the drapes. Money wise, he came out way ahead.

Later,
Dan

[Bill Seal]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I hope it works out for the OP. But I wouldn't be surprised if after all is said and done, he wishes he'd spent an extra $500 on a walking foot machine.

Peter

If he (or she) had gone to that place that I found in LA, it would not have an EXTRA $500, it would have been ONLY $500.

And @kaimana, that machine you found on EBAY is NOT a walking foot.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by TooCoys

Most of the older Singers can do it according to my research.

However the 66 seems to be the most popular. Reason being is that it has an 8 to 8.5 inch throat, and about 7 inches of height to get large pieces through the machine. It can also accept up to size 21 needles. Additionally, if for some reason it needs adjustments, it's all mechanical, made of machined stainless steel and cast iron, and is ridiculously easy to take apart and adjust.

I just ordered a 1.5amp motor to replace the old Singer .5 am that was on there.

I'm with you here Toocoys. I am a newbie to sweing and I could not justify the cost of of a Sailrite or even a Reliable Barracuda for that matter. This is because I don't know what I want or what I don't want yet. I need to do some projects first, then decide if I need and or can afford to move up to the big boys.
I got a Singer 99K which is perhaps a newer version 66 for $50, small, not so heavy but all metal, in very good shape, made in Scotland circa 1950s. It sews leather and I am sure it will be good for several layers of Sumbrella - https://youtu.be/y0LhqCCOlWY