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Old 12-05-2024, 03:41   #31
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

[QUOTE=more;3898678]please explain as dump people how goverment know i piising in sea,thanks.
QUOTE]


Maybe the boat next door is a police launch and as you are quietly "piising in sea" (in the dark) there is a camera flash and you end up in court?
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Old 12-05-2024, 04:33   #32
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

[QUOTE=coopec43;3898683]
Quote:
Originally Posted by more View Post
please explain as dump people how goverment know i piising in sea,thanks.
QUOTE]


Maybe the boat next door is a police launch and as you are quietly "piising in sea" (in the dark) there is a camera flash and you end up in court?
GDPR
whether the record was obtained in a legal or illegal way. That falls under your free evaluation of the evidence. The court will use it if it decides that the evidence is valid. Some cities in the EU use DNA testing for dog feces. in the USA, a statement is enough; in Croatia, a statement is a dead letter and in court a bad lawyer excludes him from the trial as a joke.
but in usa you can go to jail for 6 years like Two Engineers Face Up to Six Years in Jail After MARPOL Guilty Pleas
https://www.maritime-executive.com/a...l-guilty-pleas

but New York City no longer dumps garbage in the ocean, although it was the last city in the US to stop doing so.

They stopped ocean dumping in 1992
this is sad https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/garbage-barge

but mayor problem is 1 liter piss from sailor
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Old 12-05-2024, 04:43   #33
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

The oceans are thought to be able to process, and deal with, raw sewage on the high seas, through natural bacterial action.
Consequently, unless otherwise indicated, discharging sewage into the sea, within a certain distance from the nearest land [3nm treated & 12nm untreated], is prohibited ,by the provisions in Annex IV, of MARPOL.

Discharging raw sewage into the ocean is illegal, unless the vessel is equipped with a functioning sewage treatment plant, or is discharging comminuted and disinfected sewage, using a permitted system, more than three nautical miles from the nearest shore.
It is permissible to release untreated sewage at sea, provided it is discharged more than 12 nautical miles from the nearest shore, and the ship is moving at a speed of at least 4 knots, and the rate of untreated sewage release must be allowed by the administration, per resolution MEPC.157(55)*.

*“RECOMMENDATION ON STANDARDS FOR THE RATE OF DISCHARGE OF UNTREATED SEWAGE FROM SHIPS”
MEPC 55/23 ➥ https://wwwcdn.imo.org/localresource...EPC.157-55.pdf
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Old 12-05-2024, 05:08   #34
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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Apparently the US Environmental Protection Agency has that requirement? Maybe the marinas were upholding the laws?
There is indeed the requirement to disable direct discharge valves in NDZones here in North America. I've just never seen, or even heard of anyone being checked by a marina.

In fact, in my 15+ years plying Great Lakes waters, I never encountered any poop-enforcement. I spent most of my time on the Canadian side. I've only ever heard about poop-police enforcement from the USA, and there it seems largely in Florida -- but these are just my impressions from reading CF.

I should note that my current boat came with a 3-way valve that allowed direct discharge, or emptying of the holding tank. I never disabled it, and did travel for many years on the Great Lakes. No one ever even asked about it.
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Old 12-05-2024, 05:11   #35
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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…, and all the more when the law is irrationally formulated and hard to comply with.
Yes, that’s very much the crux of the issue here in South Australia.

But it is also fair to admit that more often than not we have anchorages to ourselves so it’s our own holding tank setup that would jeopardise our experience.
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Old 12-05-2024, 05:15   #36
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

For the record, some hefty fines were handed out a few years ago in our marina. It’s my understanding that DNA was used to match faeces to the outlet of at least one boat, possibly more.

I’m happy to report that the known offenders have since left.
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Old 12-05-2024, 05:29   #37
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
The oceans are thought to be able to process, and deal with, raw sewage on the high seas, through natural bacterial action.
Consequently, unless otherwise indicated, discharging sewage into the sea, within a certain distance from the nearest land [3nm treated & 12nm untreated], is prohibited ,by the provisions in Annex IV, of MARPOL.

Discharging raw sewage into the ocean is illegal, unless the vessel is equipped with a functioning sewage treatment plant, or is discharging comminuted and disinfected sewage, using a permitted system, more than three nautical miles from the nearest shore.
It is permissible to release untreated sewage at sea, provided it is discharged more than 12 nautical miles from the nearest shore, and the ship is moving at a speed of at least 4 knots, and the rate of untreated sewage release must be allowed by the administration, per resolution MEPC.157(55)*.

*“RECOMMENDATION ON STANDARDS FOR THE RATE OF DISCHARGE OF UNTREATED SEWAGE FROM SHIPS”
MEPC 55/23 ➥ https://wwwcdn.imo.org/localresource...EPC.157-55.pdf
MARPOL doesn't apply to yachts of less than 400 gross tonnes or 15 people on board.

That's because the volume discharged in one place matters a whole lot.

Holding tanks, ironically, can make pollution much worse by concentrating waste and discharging it in one place, as opposed to discharging it little by little in single flushes.
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Old 12-05-2024, 05:33   #38
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
There is indeed the requirement to disable direct discharge valves in NDZones here in North America. I've just never seen, or even heard of anyone being checked by a marina.

In fact, in my 15+ years plying Great Lakes waters, I never encountered any poop-enforcement. I spent most of my time on the Canadian side. I've only ever heard about poop-police enforcement from the USA, and there it seems largely in Florida -- but these are just my impressions from reading CF.

I should note that my current boat came with a 3-way valve that allowed direct discharge, or emptying of the holding tank. I never disabled it, and did travel for many years on the Great Lakes. No one ever even asked about it.
I lived for years with the plague of toilet police in Florida, where they are very active and very aggressive.

It's a -- humiliating experience -- to have armed cops crawling around your boat checking your toilets and sea cocks, putting dye down the toilet.

We solved this by installing a Lectra San treatment system. The potty cops would leave immediately when they saw that the system was on board.
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Old 12-05-2024, 05:48   #39
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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s the Great Lakes, the law states you need to have any direct discharge valves "disabled",
The Ontario Water Resources Act provides for fines up to $50,000 and vessel seizure for discharge of certain materials including fuel, oil, dangerous chemicals and sewage. The Environmental Act, Ontario Regulation 343 states “ Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve."
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Old 12-05-2024, 06:05   #40
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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The Ontario Water Resources Act provides for fines up to $50,000 and vessel seizure for discharge of certain materials including fuel, oil, dangerous chemicals and sewage. The Environmental Act, Ontario Regulation 343 states “ Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve."

Are you saying
"Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve."


But only while in protected water surely? (I'm confused)
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Old 12-05-2024, 06:39   #41
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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Are you saying
"Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve."


But only while in protected water surely? (I'm confused)
Ontario has no sea coast at all, on fresh water lakes. Now does the rule make sense?
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Old 12-05-2024, 07:15   #42
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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Are you saying
"Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve."


But only while in protected water surely? (I'm confused)
I'm not saying anything, just quoting the law in Ontario.
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Old 12-05-2024, 07:30   #43
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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I lived for years with the plague of toilet police in Florida, where they are very active and very aggressive.
This is what I infer from the posts here; that the poop-police are mainly active down there.

BTW, I’m not trying to say there shouldn’t be reasonable regulations around human sewage discharge. But some jurisdictions seem to be more … anal 😁about it than others.

Quote:
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The Ontario Water Resources Act provides for fines up to $50,000 and vessel seizure for discharge of certain materials including fuel, oil, dangerous chemicals and sewage. The Environmental Act, Ontario Regulation 343 states “ Water outlets for the head and/or holding tank must have no physical connection to an overboard discharge valve."
Thanks BP. Yes, the law is in place. I’ve just never seen any proactive enforcement up here the way that seems to happen in some American waters. I’m sure if someone was being egregious in their behaviour, the police up here would take action. But I’ve never heard of any LEO boarding boats just to check the state of the discharge valve.
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Old 12-05-2024, 07:32   #44
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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Ontario has no sea coast at all, on fresh water lakes. Now does the rule make sense?
Hudson Bay?
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Old 12-05-2024, 07:38   #45
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Re: Capacity of black water tank?

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
This is what I infer from the posts here; that the poop-police are mainly active down there.

BTW, I’m not trying to say there shouldn’t be reasonable regulations around human sewage discharge. But some jurisdictions seem to be more … anal ��about it than others.



Thanks BP. Yes, the law is in place. I’ve just never seen any proactive enforcement up here the way that seems to happen in some American waters. I’m sure if someone was being egregious in their behaviour, the police up here would take action. But I’ve never heard of any LEO boarding boats just to check the state of the discharge valve.
We've assisted police in marine investigations and ran a few training courses for them. Our water cops know little about boats and less about laws pertaining to boats but they do have their POC Cards.
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