Cetol or Wood Oil

[Brent Swain]

Wood oil will absorb smog and other grime deep into the wood .Cetol won't.
Brent

[Alan Wheeler]

Hellosailor, yep, That is ruffly the story. I imagine yours is a little more accurate than just the ramblings we had inconversation. I also use the name NASA very loosely, as in people involved in NASA in some round about way. My firend was working for NASA and I just assumed. The equipment I was playing with here in NZ came from technology designed by my friend to test the affects of sonic booms on buildings created by the Spaceshuttle on re-entry. Of course it isn't exactly the same machine, it was just that technology taken down into a more "user friendly" device shell we say.;-) It revolutionised ( and still is) sound for Rock concerts today. I could do the same job with one of these sub sytems that it originaly took 8 similar size systems to do and we could go much lower in freq. Arrrrhh, but that's in the past for me now. Although I did manage to keep two speakers in my living room worth $20K and they are technicaly the second most accurate sound reproduction devices ever created. Second, because the guy has now designed a Mk2 that is even better.
Right enough of my completely off topic ramblings.

[hellosailor]

Wheels-
IIRC the predecessor to NASA was NACA, so perhaps they were affiliated with the Rocket company that renamed itself WD-40. (I don't know, today I think a "Rocket Chemicals Company" might work too.<G>)

Sonic booms over buildings? What, like they needed to know how much glass would break if the Shuttle made an emergency landing on Easter Island? <G>

Some genius in one of the less flamboyant papers up here mentioned a B52 would be doing a supersonic fly-over Manhattan over the 4th of July weekend last year. I said to myself, uhhuh. B52, gone supersonic. Wait till someone finds out that's possible. THEN just wait for the bill, smashing all the glass in Manhattan.
I was kinda hoping he would be right on that one.<G>

[Alan Wheeler]

I must say, I scratched my head as to why test to see what a sonic boom would do to a building? and so what, you can't change the design of the shuttle to change a sonic boom anyway. Oh well, it ain't my tax payer dollars they are playing with. The project Tom designed was able to reproduce a freq of just 3Hz at increadible sound pressure. The test ended with the two story house they had as the "ginea pig" being moved 6" off it's foundation. What it proved I have no idea. Apart from maybe flight control suggesting re-entry should be somewhere over the sea maybe ;-)
Beign a very inquisitive lad, he loved music and especially Bass and played with the machines that produced the sound. He eventually was able to make one work from an amplifier and created his own Bass speaker he later called "servodrive". It was during the Challenger disaster that his small company started in Sound. Basicaly the stuff they were doing for NASA came to a dead stop and the company he worked for was coming to an end. So he took his ideas to his Boss and said hey, this is what I was playing with in my spare time, how bout we try producing these things. So Servodrive was born. They had a major parting of ways years later and the rift still exist today. But my friend Tom has his own company today called Sound Physics Labs, producing some of the best commercial audio products in the world. There is much much nmore complexity to the overall stories above, but that's the nutshell of it anyway.
I do apologise for the way I explained about the WD40 above. I only heard this as basic conversation and put a few 2 + 2's together to get 5. But the basic story is there among it.

[hellosailor]

Wheels-
I guess the boom testing was meaningful. I mean, "We're gona have to buy lots of windows" is one thing, but "We're gonna have to move buildings back onto their foundations, and some of them might just fall over" puts the results into a whole new budget line.<G>

No problem about the WD40, it makes a good urban myth and the world always can use a few more of them. Got enough tall buildings around there to play The Elevator Game?<G>

[Niorn]

There is another product you may want to look at. It is called Bristol Finish. A two part wood finish made for tropical climates. We have used it in Vancouver and found it to hold up very well. No sanding between coats and depending on temp you can do 5 to 6 coats a day. Very hard finish and can last up to 5 years. Another product may be Penofin. It is a oil like product that absorbs into teak about 5 times better than Cetol. Applies like oil as you wipe on, let absorb than wipe off. But it finishes like varnish and can apply 5-6 coats a day without sanding. I have a customer who put 12 coats on a swim grid 3 years ago. Awesome to look at and still looks like it was done yesterday
Robin

[gonesail]

cetol is flexible. This characteristic means that its protective shell is very resistant to impact damage and abrasion, and unaffected by the natural expansion and contraction of wood. It also prevents the flaking and peeling. finally .. maintanance coats only require scrubbing not sanding.

[encore]

hellosailer, Off the topic, but your post about using WD40 on Atlas missiles brought back memories of wiping gallons of the stuff on Atlas Ds in the operational testing mode at Vandenberg AFB in the early 60s. Wheels, I would take issue with your observation about it not exploding in an oxygen rich environment. Spray it over an open flame and you have a blowtorch. Some also use it to start diesel engines. Burn it will. Ellis

[Alan Wheeler]

Thanks for the knowledge Encore. I haven't tried it personly. Hmmmm, thinking of all sorts of little errr.....experiments I can do know :-0

[Pblais]

I've had good results with teaqua oil.

I'm working on two boats right now. My CSY 33 is for sale and I needed to strip the toe / cap rail all the way around. I had already re done all the rest in cetol, but the rail had not been redone totally for more than a long time so the Cetol was very very dark. As it's fall and getting cold it's a big job so I decided to try Teaqua out since the new owner can keep it or switch to a varnish like product if they prefer. The stripping is almost done and I've taken it down to bare new wood. The color looks quite amazing.

I also did an initial test on the seats in the cockpit of the other boat. I was impressed that with two coats it is sealed quite well and looks very nice. It's not glossy at all but it looks more like real teak. They say it can work in one coat but maybe for teak furniture but not a boat. If I had teak furniture this is the best product no question. This would be very nice inside too.

I'll be doing the bowsprit on the Gozzard next as varnishing a bowsprit deck is a serous PITA. I like the fact Teaqua cleans up easily with soap and water and you just wipe up a drip if you mess up. I think I'll also do the teak deck in the cockpit as well. It is not slippery what so ever after treatment. The cockpit had been stripped last year and cleaned and left natural. A quick cleanup with cleaner again and it was ready for Teaqua. You just clean it up and let it dry. You just apply it until it won't absorb any more then let it stand a day then wash off the excess.

I'll be replacing the new Cetol on the new boat with it as required. I have details like two butterfly hatches that to maintain in varnish is a major task. This looks like something that is nice to look at but easier to apply and keep up. If you washed the boat in the morning you could be all done with a 40 ft boat by dinner.

[Jentine]

Teak is very resinous. Resinous woods do not like to be painted. Cetol and similar products are paint. They will peel forever. Wood likes oil, natural oils. The best treatment for teak is to leave it alone. It will last for many years with no intervention.

[hellosailor]

Encore-
I think the case of WD40 and oxygen was originally that WD40 itself would not SPONTANTEOUSLY COMBUST in an oxygen-rich atmosphere. That's very different from any question of whether it will catch fire in a flame. Even for simple SCUBA gear, the greases used in the fittings are perfectly safe in "normal" breathing air--but in an oxygen-enriched mix, they will burst into flames simply from the extra oxygen presence.

Once you get above about 40% oxygen in a gas mix, many petrochemicals simply spontaneously combust, no spark, heat, or flame required. Apparently WD40, or the original product that BECAME WD40, did not do that.

The current product may use propane as a propellant, that became popular in the 90's as freon was banned for this use. So what you think if WD40 burning...may also be propellant burning, not just the WD40. Some companies have switched to other gasses because of this "small" problem.<G>

[encore]

hellosailor, not to belabor or argue the point but spontaneous combustion is "the process of catching fire as a result of heat generated by internal chemical action." In the missile business we had some pretty impressive "safety" demonstrations using liquid oxygen (lox) and oil. The demonstrator would put a teaspoon of oil (or WD40) in a paper cup and fill it on up with lox. A weight attached to a lanyard would then be dropped and the resultant explosion would send the weight up out of sight. (Maybe not too safe after all.) WD40 was used to wipe down the outside of the Atlas. The lox tank was either kept in stretch or pressurized with nitrogen because of it's monocoque construction, about the thickness of dime. All work inside the tanks and on piping was "hospital clean". The propellant on the WD40 we get around here is CO2. Wheels, if you are thinking about using it in a potato gun instead of hairspray, ya it works just as good, and it has a better smell.

[chinookofcanada]

i have used cetol for years - and find it great. if you keep up with it it is very easy, but yes, it will lift if left. no sanding needed between coats old or new. the clear has no UV protection in it so you must use it over the colored if you want that shine - we like the satin finish.

teak oil is always present about 100th of an inch below what appears to be a dry surface (on teak wood) and nothing sticks to that. anything that adheres does so only to the top thin layer. cheers, brian

[Alan Wheeler]

Just to ensure that Cetol does not take the sole blame in performance, ANY hard coating will lift if water finds away under it.
As for Teak, yeah many like the weathered look and yes it lasts sometime. But I prefer the oiled look and it last a darn site longer when oiled. It is not hard to keep oiled and now that I have tried both hard coatings and oil's, I will never go back to the hard coatings. I do nthink the hard coatings look slightly better, but the upkeep is just to much effort for me. Wait till I get one of those fancy mega yacht thingies and can afford to employ a crew to keep the bright work in order, then I will consider hard finishes again.