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steffan · 11-11-2020, 15:16

I have some high moisture readings, and some core I know I need to repair/replace in my cockpit sole.

Some water has been getting in at the grab bar base right by the pedestal. The hole through which the instrument pod wiring passes was not overdrilled & epoxied at manufacture

I know I need to address that.

Some core is gone, but I don't think is too bad more than an inch or two back from the opening yet. I know I need to cut back until I find good core, and let the damp but not ruined stuff dry out.

I can get at the sole from the underside. Am I insane for thinking that fixing this from the bottom up is feasible?

My thought is that way I can leave it ugly when I put it all back together, and I won't mess up and/or create any new entry paths for water on the exposed top side. The underside is hidden above a headliner in the aft cabin. I've done enough home and car repair to understand the challenges of working upside down.

Reefmagnet · 11-11-2020, 16:25

Whatever you think the extent of the rot is, it in all probability will be more. Repairing from underneath is a big hassle. An option would be to repair from the top and use something like kiwi-grip for nonskid to fix the cosmetics when done.

When I did my anchor well, I cut the skin off, replaced the ply, glued the skin back on then glassed it back in place then covered the whole lot with kiwi-grip to end up with an invisible repair. I did this by keeping my cuts and scarfing within the original non-skid area.

Singularity · 11-11-2020, 16:39

FWIW you can do it from underneath. If you have good access from underneath...and in particular a good "rim" of good glass about the periphery of the glass you will remove...then you can vacuum bag the glass underneath.

If the bottom side is hidden or out of sight anyway, you don't have to end up doing any fairing/paint work. The extra materials cost to bag is maybe $10-$50 (assuming you have a shop vac).

deltaten · 11-11-2020, 16:49

Make a plan, revise as needed. Cover everything in heavy plastic. Have all materials pre-cut and ready to hand. Be certain of temp and humidity. Use laminating (unwaxed) resin and add lams as soon as firm set is taken. At last layer, cover resin with plastic sheets (I like the deli wrap sheets/handy size) and form/roll well to smooth and remove air.

Cover up/PPE completely! Poopy suit, painter's hood, goggles-not just glasses and perhaps even a face shield atop that.

I pre-wet the edges well and light coated the back of glass panels on top of a stiff plastic backer, then raised the entire "table" in place...pressing firmly. I glued these to the surface with a graded layer of thickened resin, struck with off with a fine tooth flooring spreader trowel. Roll on sufficient resin and work out any bubbles and even the lam with a fin roller.

Done...... except for cleanup!

HTH and good luck

jooa · 12-11-2020, 09:08

A few years ago I redid my worn out non-slip with Kiwi Grip so when it came time to repair the cockpit sole it was relatively straight forward repair to do from the top down. I used basically the same technique as Reefmagnet did, remove the top layer of fibreglass carefully, remove sodden core material and replace with marina plywood (or your material of choice), replace original fibreglass pieces, grind and tape all seams, fill and sand flaws of the repair, and apply a coat of Kiwi Grip to the entire cockpit sole. The whole procedure took me about 4-5 days and now 3 years later friends comment that they find it impossible to tell that any repair work was done. Kiwi Grip is fabulous for hiding all the tiny flaws which result from a repair of this sort.

steffan · 12-11-2020, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jooa

Kiwi Grip is fabulous for hiding all the tiny flaws which result from a repair of this sort.

Thank you all for the advice. One concern I have about going top-down is that there is no paint anywhere else on the topsides. The original non-skid pattern right in the gelcoat is on the cockpit floor, as is on all other walkable surfaces. I probably need to get over that though, and a painted cockpit floor is not going to look out of place. Consider it an upgrade!

wrwakefield · 12-11-2020, 09:32

Steffan,

I had the same issue with the cockpit sole of a similar sized vessel [Valiant Esprit 37] many years ago. Since the cockpit was above the engine, I decided to remove it all and replace with removable aluminum diamond plate.

I through-bolted aluminum angle around the perimeter, with removable aluminum cross members. The diamond plate was insulated on the underside, and had rubber seals around the perimeter to aid in keeping it from leaking. It worked well and was very sturdy. An added bonus was top down access to the engine and fuel tank that did not previously exist.

In case this is of interest.

Best wishes with your project.

Cheers! Bill

jooa · 12-11-2020, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by steffan

Thank you all for the advice. One concern I have about going top-down is that there is no paint anywhere else on the topsides. The original non-skid pattern right in the gelcoat is on the cockpit floor, as is on all other walkable surfaces. I probably need to get over that though, and a painted cockpit floor is not going to look out of place. Consider it an upgrade!

Hey Steffan, find out if any of your fellow boater friends have used Kiwi Grip on their boats. it doesn't look like paint, it looks like texture. You can also buy it in different tints to match or accent your boat. I've had it on for about 9 years now and find it very durable, good grip and easy underfoot. I sail in the PNW.

Orion Jim · 12-11-2020, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jooa

Hey Steffan, find out if any of your fellow boater friends have used Kiwi Grip on their boats. it doesn't look like paint, it looks like texture. You can also buy it in different tints to match or accent your boat. I've had it on for about 9 years now and find it very durable, good grip and easy underfoot. I sail in the PNW.

Any paint store can custom tint it to match your existing color scheme.

Singularity · 12-11-2020, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by steffan

...Some core is gone, but I don't think is too bad more than an inch or two back from the opening yet. I know I need to cut back until I find good core, and let the damp but not ruined stuff dry out.

I can get at the sole from the underside. Am I insane for thinking that fixing this from the bottom up is feasible?

I must say that I think a bottom-up approach is easier (particularly if the whole tub floor isn't rotten), takes the same, if less time than from above (assuming you have good access from underneath and if the repair isn't in everyday sight down below). No disturbance of topside appearance.
Is it correct that your access to the bottom of the cockpit looks like the photo below, and that the headliner is easily removed without destroying it?

steffan · 12-11-2020, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singularity

Is it correct that your access to the bottom of the cockpit looks like the photo below, and that the headliner is easily removed without destroying it?

That's exactly it. The headliner has been dropped already, and a repair from beneath would not require a cosmetic finish.

The view from below shows the approximate extent of elevated moisture readings, although I certainly believe I could well have to go further.

The view from the top shows the molded texture that I am loathed to ruin. The boat is under a winter cover now but I siliconed a bit of plastic in just in case. A previous owner did all the now dirty silicone on everything else, rather than trace the leak and rebed the grab rail base. They siliconed *everything* on the rail and binnacle. It's a mess

I should have rebedded the rail base right when I acquired the boat this spring, but I thought it could wait for haul out. Live and learn.

Singularity · 12-11-2020, 14:13

Is that paint on the interior glass, or white gelcoat?
So the repair from below requires a good lip for the new layup (that covers the replacement core) to attach to. I reckon at least 3" around would be adequate, but would seek other opinions. You don't have to per se remove all the "underlying" glass, but you've obviously got to get the sog out. So if the "window" of underlying glass you'd remove allows you to both get the sog out, install new core up into any cavity, and have a good lip of peripheral glass to adhere your repair layup onto, you'd be good.
Day 1-cut window, remove core, scruff up lip for later glassing, dry overnight
Day 2- epoxy in core
Day 3-glass new layup covering core
Day 4-drill holes to remount pedestal brace
Day 5+ go fix the other side so it doesn't end up like this one (or better, fix both sides same time)
I don't think the top-side kiwigrip approach is bad, but I personally would attempt a bottom repair first, even if it ended up being more work in the long run. Admittedly this (bottom approach first, then top if bottom found too much rot) could end up taking more time. Horses for courses.

steffan · 12-11-2020, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singularity

Is that paint on the interior glass, or white gelcoat?

It's paint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singularity

I don't think the top-side kiwigrip approach is bad, but I personally would attempt a bottom repair first, even if it ended up being more work in the long run. Admittedly this (bottom approach first, then top if bottom found too much rot) could end up taking more time. Horses for courses.

Yep, I think that's the plan. Thanks.