Cold Molded Wylie 38 - Wet Wood

[Symphony]

same with my Vicem 58 mahogany cold mold cruiser: inside was epoxy, clearly showing the wood, except in the engine room and lazarette where it was white epoxy paint.
Great boat, quiet on the move, great insulation, strong as steel if a log got in the way, and it was light but strong like carbon fiber.

good luck with your new boat!

[clausont]

Originally Posted by Symphony

same with my Vicem 58 mahogany cold mold cruiser: inside was epoxy, clearly showing the wood, except in the engine room and lazarette where it was white epoxy paint.
Great boat, quiet on the move, great insulation, strong as steel if a log got in the way, and it was light but strong like carbon fiber.

good luck with your new boat!

So far, these are the basic comments I have heard on the cold molded boats. I am very pleased to hear that Thanks!

[Rijco1954]

Glass on the outside and just epoxy coating on the inside is consistent with the Wylie 45 I briefly owned (very briefly).


In my case, the hull was cedar strip planking with two layers of diagonally laid mahogany veneers on the exterior, followed by two layers of cloth and resin on the exterior. The keelson was sawn Douglas Fir. Well built boat, but it had an undetected flaw.



The hull developed water saturation problems in the veneers and keelson after the boat hit a rock in Alaska and an undetected fracture in the glass skin occurred just forward of the keel stub along the centerline of the hull. This occurred well before my ownership. We discovered it after hauling out and testing with a professional moisture meter and sounding the hull. Sadly, too much time had gone by (years) without this condition being properly addressed, so by the time I got involved, water had saturated into the strip planking, mahogany veneers and Douglas Fir keelson below the waterline. It was extensive. Boat looked great, but it was seriously wet. I passed on rebuilding the boat.



This is a good example of why the term "epoxy saturation" is misleading - the wood in a cold molded boat may be encapsulated with epoxy but that's only a surface condition - the majority of the wood fiber is not saturated and can absorb moisture and therefore deteriorate if it isn't properly taken care of. If a fracture or impact develops anywhere, you are looking at a wood boat with all the vulnerabilities of wood, and you can't rely on the epoxy coating to ensure water won't get into the wood grain and wreck havoc. This is especially true of Douglas Fir components, I'm told, and especially true of sawn vs laminated wood in general.



Were I building a cold molded boat today, I'd have no sawn wood at all and only laminated wood assemblies, and I'd make the glass exterior skin with Kevlar to provide maximum impact resistance. I still like cold molded boats, but I'm a lot more cautious about construction methods and careful maintenance to ensure a dry boat.

[Catalacmarc]

Sorry to read about the Wylie, came close to a similar cryptic failure in an old wooden boat. Only discovered when the stuffing box sheared off the dead wood when the hanger bolts failed. Saved the boat but learned one hell of a lesson.



It really is a deceptive term given how shallow the penetration by epoxy is. True it is better than polyester resin but it is saturation of only a shallow layer on the surface. And if the wood itself is compromised, you end up encapsulating the problem as it continues to fail.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by Clivevon

Are you sure its epoxy coated, not epoxy saturated?
Gougeon Bros WEST stands for wood epoxy saturation technique. Used on strip planked construction. Each plank epoxied to next one. You might find that wet unsaturated patches of wood are not connected to each other but are isolated by epoxy saturated wood so need drying out separately. Multiple moisture readings, multiple drain holes & vacuum bagging larger area sounds like a good idea.

Name not withstanding, the epoxy doesn't really saturate the wood. It soaks in a little, but it's really a coating. Saturation would mean there's epoxy all the way through the wood and that just doesn't happen. But yes, in strip plank construction the strips are all epoxy glued together so there's a moisture barrier between each one. Each strip must be dried individually, the moisture will not readily migrate from one strip to another. That means drilling a whole lot of holes.

[boatpoker]

I blew up the photo in Post#1 and I see not only wet wood but significantly decayed (rotted) wood. Injection of epoxy might make you feel better but it won't strengthen or stick to what is essentially compost.

The only fix is removal of the rot and scarfing new wood.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

Name not withstanding, the epoxy doesn't really saturate the wood. It soaks in a little, but it's really a coating.

Yes.
The epoxy will only penetrate to ~the first unbroken cell structure in the wood.
Typical epoxies are high solids with short working times, and they don't have the solvents needed to carry the product any deeper.
End grain will wick-in more depending upon the species of wood.
Now, if one wished to spend multiple thousands of dollars in setting up a trough in which each strip could submerged in "Smiths" CPES for several hours, (maybe overnight,) and the strips were small enough in cross section, one can achieve a deeper penetration of that product prior to the glue-up operations.
But as the CPES products have a limited "pot life", one would be throwing away more product than they were using.

[double u]

...this thread is a great example of the great varieties of replies: experts side by side with "no idea but opinion" - beware OP!

(btw: in the Gougeons book one method of cold molded construction is strip-planked with 2 or more diagonal veneer-layers outside. Recommended for boatsize up to 32',IIRC)
(& just contrasting "epoxisaturated" with "epoxicoated" seems to show, that the writer never used Epoxi on wood in his life)

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by double u

(btw: in the Gougeons book one method of cold molded construction is strip-planked with 2 or more diagonal veneer-layers outside. Recommended for boatsize up to 32',IIRC)
(

That method is used for boats far bigger than 32'.
It's an ideal method, a good edge glued strip planking job gives a pleasant interior view and longitudinal strength, and multiple diagonal layers on top of that give high torsional strength and build up hull thickness.