Complete Topcoat Painting Process - Need Advice

[SVCrusader]

Hello,

I am having a tough time finding a guide to help me repaint the topcoat of my '69 Allied Luders 33. I have been finding odd and ends here and there but nothing to let me know definitively how to do certain steps.

A little background, the paint is in ok condition, it is not chipping or flaking off at all which leads me to believe it still is very well bonded to the boat. However it is now 50 years old and it is time for it to be re-done. There is no longer any shine to it and over the years it has become quite stained.

So from what I have seen online the process is:
1. Clean the boat
2. Sand it down
3. Fill in problem spots with filler
4. Sand down filler
5. Prime the boat
6. Sand primer
7. Clean boat
8. Paint Boat

The portion of the process that I am on is step #2 Sand it down. How far should I be sanding? I have attached a picture that shows the various layers on the boat. In the front area I have taken it down to the fiberglass because I will be doing a small amount of fiberglass work on the very front of the boat. Should I be taking the rest of the boat down to the fiberglass? Or because it seems like the paint is still really well bonded, should I be roughing it up with 220 grit sandpaper and priming directly on top of the existing top coat? If anyone could please give me advice on how to proceed that would be so helpful.

[psk125]

Everything depends on what you're planning to paint with. 2-part polys are the thing to use, unless you want to do it all again in about three (or less) years. Follow their directions to the LETTER!! You seem to have omitted solvent-washing from your to-do list. Crud and pollution in the air land on sanded surfaces and will impact adhesion. We just re-did our deck with Awlgrip and spent many hours washing down between sandings.

[roverhi]

If that finish has been on for 40 years it's gelcoat not paint. Buffing, polishing and waxing the gelcoat can usually bring it back to almost new condition. A bleach like Oxalic acid can also painlessly remove a lot of the stains, just paint on and rinse off. Would go for prepping the gel coat route rather than paint.

Paint is a very thin coating and much more subject to scratches and abrasion that gelcoat laughs off. I had my boat painted and regret it as the paint has proved much less robust and after 8 years is in need of doing it again.

[JPA Cate]

I agree with roverhi here, paint is fragile. If it is at all possible to keep the gelcoat, I would, even to consider re-gelcoating. Paint always shows every little ding, and not all of it is even patchable, if/when it is damaged.

Our experience with paint is that the automotive LPU has better gloss retention than the marine LPUs, and costs less. But it is inevitable that *stuff* happens to it. In our case, we were T-boned twice at anchor, but it is just life and scrapes happen. As roverhi says, paint is a thin film.

Good luck with it. You may want to consult with a professional, or at least do the pre-prep under their advice and then let them re-do the gelcoat where it needs it. Color matching is something you can learn, but it is not intuitive.

Ann

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by SVCrusader

Hello,

I am having a tough time finding a guide to help me repaint the topcoat of my '69 Allied Luders 33. I have been finding odd and ends here and there but nothing to let me know definitively how to do certain steps.

A little background, the paint is in ok condition, it is not chipping or flaking off at all which leads me to believe it still is very well bonded to the boat. However it is now 50 years old and it is time for it to be re-done. There is no longer any shine to it and over the years it has become quite stained.

So from what I have seen online the process is:
1. Clean the boat
2. Sand it down
3. Fill in problem spots with filler
4. Sand down filler
5. Prime the boat
6. Sand primer
7. Clean boat
8. Paint Boat

The portion of the process that I am on is step #2 Sand it down. How far should I be sanding? I have attached a picture that shows the various layers on the boat. In the front area I have taken it down to the fiberglass because I will be doing a small amount of fiberglass work on the very front of the boat. Should I be taking the rest of the boat down to the fiberglass? Or because it seems like the paint is still really well bonded, should I be roughing it up with 220 grit sandpaper and priming directly on top of the existing top coat? If anyone could please give me advice on how to proceed that would be so helpful.

The steps you outlined are correct, except that you have to wash it down pretty good with the recommended product before the primer and the paint.
If the surface is in good shape, sand it with 220, then prime and sand the primer with 320. No need to bring it downto firberglass in areas that do not require repairs.
The thing you need to consider is which system you will be using, and I have only used Awlgrip and I am used to it and I never had any issues, its expensive but a great product. There is also International and Alexseal, the latter is getting good DYI reviews.

I did not do my topsides yet, but I completed my entire deck last summer, which was also painted before. You can get pretty good results DYI, and I assume you will be using rolling and tip?

Awalgrip has a book with detailed instructions for all the steps. The bottom line is that surface prep is 90% of the work. Shoot me a PM if you need anything else specific. Check Minaret's Nauticat 52 refit sticky on this forum, there are great tips from an excellent professional.

Originally Posted by roverhi

If that finish has been on for 40 years it's gelcoat not paint. Buffing, polishing and waxing the gelcoat can usually bring it back to almost new condition. A bleach like Oxalic acid can also painlessly remove a lot of the stains, just paint on and rinse off. Would go for prepping the gel coat route rather than paint.

Paint is a very thin coating and much more subject to scratches and abrasion that gelcoat laughs off. I had my boat painted and regret it as the paint has proved much less robust and after 8 years is in need of doing it again.

It looks like the hull was painted, as I see the grey primer behind the white. My boat (sistership) is also 53+ and it was painted, it has the same grey primer. They (Allied) had an issue back then and were using too thick a layer of gel-coat and they were cracking all over, so they peeled it back to fiberglass and painted some hulls.

[Mark Thurlow]

All the manufacturers have full instructions, so choose your product and follow the instructions: as different cleaners are required for different products.

[sailingchiro]

I painted mine with Awlcraft about 5 years ago. If I had to do it again, I would have painted the deck then good Kiwi grip or other non skid material.

The topsides, I would have prepped and vinyl wrapped it. Vinyl wrap is cheap and easily removed and reapplied after 5 years. If something rubs through it, Cut it out and replace with patch. And if you don't like the color, just pull it off and replace it. My boat is 37' catamaran and the vinyl supplies to do the outside of the hulls and a little inside was less than $500. My paint bill for our boat was over $5000. Plus the time to prep and all of those supplies. Beware, you can't put vinyl over primer, apparently it will just fall off.

[Clivevon]

Vinyl wrap for your topsides is certainly now worth serious consideration - am considering it for my own boat. Plenty of info on Google & Youtube.

[Calaban-Alleria]

Head on over to the YouTube channel "BoatworksToday". He has all the information you will ever need on fiberglass repair and painting. He also offers project consulting services if you want a little more direct advice.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by SVCrusader

Hello,

I am having a tough time finding a guide to help me repaint the topcoat of my '69 Allied Luders 33. I have been finding odd and ends here and there but nothing to let me know definitively how to do certain steps.

A little background, the paint is in ok condition, it is not chipping or flaking off at all which leads me to believe it still is very well bonded to the boat. However it is now 50 years old and it is time for it to be re-done. There is no longer any shine to it and over the years it has become quite stained.

So from what I have seen online the process is:
1. Clean the boat
2. Sand it down
3. Fill in problem spots with filler
4. Sand down filler
5. Prime the boat
6. Sand primer
7. Clean boat
8. Paint Boat

The portion of the process that I am on is step #2 Sand it down. How far should I be sanding? I have attached a picture that shows the various layers on the boat. In the front area I have taken it down to the fiberglass because I will be doing a small amount of fiberglass work on the very front of the boat. Should I be taking the rest of the boat down to the fiberglass? Or because it seems like the paint is still really well bonded, should I be roughing it up with 220 grit sandpaper and priming directly on top of the existing top coat? If anyone could please give me advice on how to proceed that would be so helpful.

STOP your work.

Determine what manufacturer's paint you are going to use and either contact them or get their brochure/download their direction for the use of their paint. READ thoroughly and call them with any questions before continuing your project...I called the manufacturer of my paint about four times. Ask for specifics if necessary like what grit of sandpaper and cleaning fluid to use.

The surface cannot be prepared too much.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[jmschmidt]

Need more info. What do you mean by "Top Coat?" Topsides? Cabin top, aka "coach roof"? Deck, including non-skid? Below the waterline? All of the above?

[George DuBose]

When I bought Skylark, she had a new coat of Awlgrip. A trip through the Caledonian canal put paid to that.

I have painted her several times with Epifanes two component paint and once I sand the topsides, I wipe it thoroughly down with tack cloths. With Epifanes and maybe other two part paints, once you get one coat on, if you follow the manufacturers instructions, you can add a second coat without sanding. Just can't wait too long.

Best quality rollers (mohair) are my choice. I tried rolling alone, rolling and tipping and just using a good quality brush and I have found that just rolling alone works the best for me.

I am facing another topside paint project this spring and am looking forward to seeing if my application skills have improved.

When I painted over the Awlgrip, I used a primer and then the two part. Now I just sand the topsides with 180 grit and roll it on. After wiping down with the tack rags.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

When I bought Skylark, she had a new coat of Awlgrip. A trip through the Caledonian canal put paid to that.

I have painted her several times with Epifanes two component paint and once I sand the topsides, I wipe it thoroughly down with tack cloths. With Epifanes and maybe other two part paints, once you get one coat on, if you follow the manufacturers instructions, you can add a second coat without sanding. Just can't wait too long.

Best quality rollers (mohair) are my choice. I tried rolling alone, rolling and tipping and just using a good quality brush and I have found that just rolling alone works the best for me.

I am facing another topside paint project this spring and am looking forward to seeing if my application skills have improved.

When I painted over the Awlgrip, I used a primer and then the two part. Now I just sand the topsides with 180 grit and roll it on. After wiping down with the tack rags.

I’m not sure how long you’ve had your boat but “new coat of Awlgrip” then “painted her several times” and “facing another paint project this spring” sounds to me like Epiphanes is not a product I would want to use (sorry Epiphanes).

My boat was freshly painted just before I bought her (2007, don’t know what product was used), the paint is still in great condition, I’m agonising over a topside paint job next year but only because I want to change the colour. I will definitely be spraying the product on, rolling and tipping sounds like a mission to me.

[George DuBose]

I should revise my earlier post. I paint my boat often with Epifanes because I USE my boat. In The Netherlands, I deal with locks often and tie up in "rough" places. I paint my boat often as penance for scratching her.

I like the ease of use and wonderful gloss I get with Epifanes.

One thought: If you must paint your boat, don't change the color so the scratches aren't so apparent...LOL

[SDsailor50]

I personally have never painted my boat and yes it needs it bad. A guy on my dock had an old boat and he made it look like it was new. I ask him where he learned to do that and he said that he followed instructions from Don Casey's book on Sailboat Maintenance.