Compost toilets

[thinwater]

Actual Code References re. Disposal?



Does any one have a code reference to Specific Regulations Governing Human Waste Disposal? Not what you have heard, common sense, or even something posted on a government web site (unless it is the EPA, the advice and interpretation pages are often poorly researched).


Disposing of urine is easy. Even the fussiest marina won't notice a jug. Controlling the smell is easy by treating with vinegar or one of several treatments, particularly if you don't keep it for more than a few days.


The media/crap mix is a little more problematic. Yes, I understand you can take it home and compost it, but for many that is not practical. I am aware of one area where there are restrictions for boaters and putting it in the trash (not naming names, but I spoke with the harbor master several times), and the reason for the conflict were real. Irresponsible boaters were dropping poorly packaged bags in the waste bin at the dinghy dock, right next to benches in a nice park. That was just--rude--and I'm not surprised that park visitors complained. They should. If the the boater had taken the bags to a regular dumpster, and packaged them more properly, there would have been no issue. Unfortunately, the boaters involved don't play well with others. Local problem, but could happen anywhere.



The EPA prohibits the disposal of untreated human waste to the surface. It must be treated to reduce pathogens first (effectiveness of this treatment is specified): 40 CFR 257.3-6. However, this restriction does not apply if the was the is buried, as they would be in a landfill: (These provisions do not apply to septic tank pumpings disposed of by a trenching or burial operation.)


I can find no code reference re. WAG bags or diapers, local or federal. A few people say what you should do, or even that you "must"dispose of them in a certain manner, but with no code backup, which makes the statements impossible to evaluate for accuracy.


There are references to "EPA approved" WAG bags, but I can find no reference and the packaging and web sites do not reference the approval (which they would).


So where does the idea "you can't put that in the trash" come from? I'm not sayin' there is no such restriction, I'm asking if anyone has a code reference.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Actual Code References re. Disposal?



Does any one have a code reference to Specific Regulations Governing Human Waste Disposal? Not what you have heard, common sense, or even something posted on a government web site (unless it is the EPA, the advice and interpretation pages are often poorly researched).


Disposing of urine is easy. Even the fussiest marina won't notice a jug. Controlling the smell is easy by treating with vinegar or one of several treatments, particularly if you don't keep it for more than a few days.


The media/crap mix is a little more problematic. Yes, I understand you can take it home and compost it, but for many that is not practical. I am aware of one area where there are restrictions for boaters and putting it in the trash (not naming names, but I spoke with the harbor master several times), and the reason for the conflict were real. Irresponsible boaters were dropping poorly packaged bags in the waste bin at the dinghy dock, right next to benches in a nice park. That was just--rude--and I'm not surprised that park visitors complained. They should. If the the boater had taken the bags to a regular dumpster, and packaged them more properly, there would have been no issue. Unfortunately, the boaters involved don't play well with others. Local problem, but could happen anywhere.



The EPA prohibits the disposal of untreated human waste to the surface. It must be treated to reduce pathogens first (effectiveness of this treatment is specified): 40 CFR 257.3-6. However, this restriction does not apply if the was the is buried, as they would be in a landfill: (These provisions do not apply to septic tank pumpings disposed of by a trenching or burial operation.)


I can find no code reference re. WAG bags or diapers, local or federal. A few people say what you should do, or even that you "must"dispose of them in a certain manner, but with no code backup, which makes the statements impossible to evaluate for accuracy.


There are references to "EPA approved" WAG bags, but I can find no reference and the packaging and web sites do not reference the approval (which they would).


So where does the idea "you can't put that in the trash" come from? I'm not sayin' there is no such restriction, I'm asking if anyone has a code reference.

https://www.crossingcreeksrvresort.c...osting-toilets


Dumping Solid Waste:

Solid waste as it comes from a composting toilet is not yet truly compost. That takes time. But it is not considered hazardous by the EPA. Your bag of waste and fiber is the same classification as solid waste or municipal waste. It’s actually not as bad as a disposable diaper, which mixes solid waste with urine and contains more non-biodegradable plastic.

If you buy a vented, extra base (about $300), you can set it aside an allow it to completely compost before dumping. That’s the ideal method.

Here are places for dumping solid waste:

In the compost pile at a park or campground. One is typically available.
In a trash receptacle. Place the waste inside a plastic or compostable bag before placing in a trashcan or dumpster. Landfills accept this as a type of municipal waste. It is not against the law, or else millions of moms and dads would be picked up for using disposable diapers.
Burying. Some parks may bar this, but generally speaking if you’re in a wilderness area, you may dig a cat hole a least 8 inches deep and bury solid human waste, the same as you would if defecating outdoors while camping. The smaller the amount, the better. The bigger the amount, the deeper the hole should be. For multiple burials, use different spots.


EPA pdf on this Google page for download
https://www.google.com/search?client...e-gws-wiz-serp

[wmcunninghamii]

Originally Posted by newhaul

https://www.crossingcreeksrvresort.c...osting-toilets


Dumping Solid Waste:

Solid waste as it comes from a composting toilet is not yet truly compost. That takes time. But it is not considered hazardous by the EPA. Your bag of waste and fiber is the same classification as solid waste or municipal waste. It’s actually not as bad as a disposable diaper, which mixes solid waste with urine and contains more non-biodegradable plastic.

If you buy a vented, extra base (about $300), you can set it aside an allow it to completely compost before dumping. That’s the ideal method.

Here are places for dumping solid waste:

In the compost pile at a park or campground. One is typically available.
In a trash receptacle. Place the waste inside a plastic or compostable bag before placing in a trashcan or dumpster. Landfills accept this as a type of municipal waste. It is not against the law, or else millions of moms and dads would be picked up for using disposable diapers.
Burying. Some parks may bar this, but generally speaking if you’re in a wilderness area, you may dig a cat hole a least 8 inches deep and bury solid human waste, the same as you would if defecating outdoors while camping. The smaller the amount, the better. The bigger the amount, the deeper the hole should be. For multiple burials, use different spots.


EPA pdf on this Google page for download
https://www.google.com/search?client...e-gws-wiz-serp

This is an interesting topic. I use hybrid wag bags and have often wondered about legal disposal. Currently I use the dumpster. I do not place this in a trash can.

So what is a hybrid wag bag? Well, I have read a lot about composting toilets. I like the concept but the form factor and venting do not work for my boat. I have looked at several models.

I had been using wag bags in my sealed groko head bowl. All plumbing removed, epoxy plug in the drain. I would just place them in the bowl and use the toilet as normal both #1 and # 2. However after reading articles on this forum and at mfg websites I became aware of the downside of mixing feces and urine and the upside of mixing a dry media with the feces separated from urine. This rang very true because storing the bags aboard for a few days was pretty odiferous.

So, I thought I would try sort of a hybrid approach. I purchased a bag of coconut coir (as a first experiment) and began pouring about a cup into the wag bag which I set up right after I remove the previous used bag so it is ready when I am ready. I then take a number 2 but use a pee bottle for urine. Sounds awkward but is actually quite comfortable to do, even at sea.

I then pour another cup of coir into the bag such that the feces is covered. Turns out to be kind of a **** sandwich so to speak with coir on bottom and top. Then the used bag is compressed and packaged in the provided outer bag and into a 5 gal sealed Home Depot bucket I keep in the lazarette. I have been very impressed with the dramatic reduction in odor (still a bit smelly but way way less) and I don't worry about urine potentially leaking out of the sealed bags. I can store about 10 bags using this method although I've never collected that many. I would need to be offshore to create that volume of feces and offshore I use a bucket. I singlehand so, obviously volumes would go up with crew aboard.

I will then deposit the sealed bags in a dumpster at whatever marina I am visiting. I feel like this is a responsible approach so long as you don't use the random trash can which certainly can be offensive and rude.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by newhaul

https://www.crossingcreeksrvresort.c...osting-toilets
... Your bag of waste and fiber is the same classification as solid waste or municipal waste. I don't know if this is true. It may also be classified along with septic tank waste and stabilized sewage sludge, which are in a different classification. Might be true ... and might not. I cannot find a code reference.

EPA pdf on this Google page for download
https://www.google.com/search?client...e-gws-wiz-serp

Of course, we're not talking about compost. I could not find an EPA reference to WAG bags. I also search FEMA and other government users, looking for a regulatory requirements for WAG bags. Didn't find anything.


It's easy to be flip about sanitation, but it is one of the first requirements for civilization. It does not have to be pretty, but it does have to be safe, and relying on common sense has not always proven reliable.


A good book on sanitation gone wrong, and the early days of the germ theory of disease. https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Map-Lon.../dp/1594482691

[KaptainKaos]

Hi

We're about to head off for a few years of cruising in very remote area. Solomon Island, Papua New Guinea etc. There's no hardware store selling coir peat.

Of course there's plenty of coconuts around though. My question is what compost should we use and can we somehow grind up coconut husks? Has anyone done this?

Thanks.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by KaptainKaos

Hi

We're about to head off for a few years of cruising in very remote area. Solomon Island, Papua New Guinea etc. There's no hardware store selling coir peat.

Of course there's plenty of coconuts around though. My question is what compost should we use and can we somehow grind up coconut husks? Has anyone done this?

Thanks.

Each brick is enough for each change of compost bin and they are small . just buy a few before you leave to cruise . this one is enough for at least 8 years worth .

https://www.bagicho.com/products/coc...RoCwwgQAvD_BwE

[Phantom Jim]

I can anticipate no reason one could not pound dried coconut hulls into some manner of medium to use in a composting toilet. It may not be as neat as prepared coir, but if it works, it works. The original sawdust toilets used rotten sawdust, forest floor litter and the such. Let your imagination guide you, I am confident that you will come up with something satisfactory.

As a separate thought, and I may be incorrect, where you are cruising may not have any restrictions on overboard discharge of body waste. This is not an endorsement to dump in crowded areas, but as a disposal out where there is enormous dilution.

[KaptainKaos]

Thanks for the replies. One problem is that our first destination is New Caledonia and they are very strict. I expect that any coir we have on board will be confiscated as a biological risk.

Carrying enough for several years for a family of 4 would be an issue anyway. i need to empty it every 2 weeks.

I am expecting that we will sometimes dump it overboard. Many of the places we are visiting have absolutely no garbage collection so it's either that or burying it.

[Minggat]

Compressed sawdust pellets from feed or pet store. I have been using this for years. Much cheaper and easier to get.

Why do people think that these desiccating toilets require coconut coir?

[KaptainKaos]

Originally Posted by Minggat

Compressed sawdust pellets from feed or pet store. I have been using this for years. Much cheaper and easier to get.

Why do people think that these desiccating toilets require coconut coir?

Thanks for the tip! I didn't know that.

[Phantom Jim]

Perhaps a partial solution would be to use a direct discharge toilet when away from civilization and use the biolitter (compost) toilet when in regulated zones. If you are in a "civilized" area you probably will be able to find some appropriate medium.


The old bucket system overboard when on passages would certainly work.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Phantom Jim

Perhaps a partial solution would be to use a direct discharge toilet when away from civilization and use the biolitter (compost) toilet when in regulated zones. If you are in a "civilized" area you probably will be able to find some appropriate medium.





The old bucket system overboard when on passages would certainly work.

This.

We have a composting toilet and a direct discharge electric toilet and we use one or the other depending on where we are. Non discharge zones whether legal or common sense we use the composting toilet alone.

With two of us on board with a Natures Head we empty and replace every 6-8 weeks. Note that we don’t put toilet paper into the NH, so that helps extending the time between changes.

Coconut coir is readily available in most developed countries as it is an effective and environmentally friendly mulch and plant bedding mix. Paper and wood-based cat litters work well also. It’s relatively cheap to stock up, so get a few different materials and hopefully all of them won’t be seized.

Any shredded hydrophilic material will work. I’ve heard of people using sand - no need to stir, simply dump and cover with more sand. Just make sure the sand you collect doesn’t have any critters in it - maybe wash it with bleach?

[Happ]

The coconut husk comes dried in a very small and compact package. Before using it you break a bit off the brick and soak it on water and break it up. How much you will need depends on how many people are using the head.

[Mike OReilly]

I would have suggested just bringing enough for years, but if they're going to confiscate it, that won't work. I have heard about people using all sorts of bedding materials; everything from sawdust to dried leaves. I'm sure direct extraction of coconut husks would also work, but it would be difficult to do, and you'd have to make sure the fresh husks are relatively dry.

[valhalla360]

I'm guessing but probably a relatively poor areas. I bet if you showed a local kid what you were looking for and offered $5, you could get a year or two worth made up for you in a day or so and the kid would be happy to make the $5.

It doesn't have to be bone dry, in fact it shouldn't be. All you are looking for is a material that is small enough to mix but large enough to create air pockets so the mix stays aerobic.