Compost toilets

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Not that I have seen, I certainly can understand why. Your first question asks about misgivings on composers. I have several. We've used them for close to 7 years have had all 3, current boat has nature's head and an airhead going on 5 years, it came with them as a used boat, and both suck for different reasons.
One has a tiny pee jug, two adults using it it needs emptying every 3 days and it's gross and can smell, it also has a churner lever that barely reaches the compost requiring alot of compost, the other is larger, has a huge footprint, holds more urine but is harder to clean, though churner is better designed. It has a gap in the walls that can house a colony of insects. Is uncomfortable to sit on. Etc
More Cons?
If a women or even a man urinates at an incorrect angle it can cause a gross mess if the flap isn't closed perfectly. The result is horrible smelling compost.
Your poo never really compost, it just dessicated a little bit , your still either bagging your crap or throwing it overboard or finding so adhere on shore to dispose of it??, along with the urine the compost is a messy affair on a boat. The rest of the world dumps or pumps out overboard so why make it harder on yourself??
Then if cruising long term you need a place to store compost, again it's messy and takes up alot of space.
If someone has irritable bowel syndrome you don't want them on your boat, ever. That or any bad tequilla and Texas chilli dog night will ruin your joy of your $1000. Plastic bucket.
If we could find the correct foot print for a sea head we would switch back yesterday. Our heads are small so not easy...
I find marine heads much less a hassle for full time living aboard.

Don't you have a toilet lid to stop smells and keep insect life out?

Is that a fault of the toilet of a fault of the user!! (A lot of Australian blokes can't us a urinal properly)

That could be a problem regardless of the type of toilet


You complain too much! Just think of the Skipper's partner of a yacht I sailed on. She was doing the right thing after a race and was going about emptying the toilet tank but as she went up the gangway steps she slipped and emptied the contents over herself.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by coopec43

I intend to direct the flow of urine from the "funnel" to the waste tank. I worry about the smell so I would use a ping pong ball as a one way valve but if that doesn't work I'd install a gate valve, (Of course I'd have a small fan as well)

I will make up a fiberglass pedestal to a design "borrowed" from one of the reputable proprietary brands.

As far as a seat and cover is concerned I will use the one off my standard marine head

Does anyone see a problem?

I reconfigured my stateroom and head so I started with an absolute blank slate. I thought about a small installed holding tank for urine instead of the small bottle of a compost head. I decided against for two reasons. First, unlike a regular marine head that flushes with water, I would be holding pure urine which I'm guessing would get pretty ripe after a while. At least with a portable bottle, you can empty it completely, even rinse it out. A holding tank always has some residual remaining after dumping.

Second reason is retained complexity of a holding tank and pump. Sure, the plumbing line can be much smaller, but still. When I boiled it down, I sort of felt like I would have a system that incorporated the worst elements of both a traditional marine system and compost head system.

Too bad direct discharge isn't kosher. I could live with rebuilding a marine head every year or two (I know, some people claim much longer between failures, just has not been my experience). But the various holding tank issues are a pain. I'm not overly squeamish about the effluent, but it is invariably a messy job that has, in my experience, many failure points (macerator, thru hull, hose, y-valve, vented loop, etc). After 25 years of dealing with various head systems, I've tossed in the towel and am going compost (nature's head). Maybe if I had a larger trawler with a proper stand up engine room where everything is mounted chest-level and within easy reach, I would reconsider a traditional head system. I've just found I don't have energy for stuff like head systems anymore.

[FAST FRED]

Order a second pee jug when you purchase the head.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by coopec43

I intend to direct the flow of urine from the "funnel" to the waste tank. I worry about the smell so I would use a ping pong ball as a one way valve but if that doesn't work I'd install a gate valve, (Of course I'd have a small fan as well)

I know some compost head users do divert urine to a larger holding tank. This will definitely mean you go a lot longer between urine tank dumps. However, for me, doing so would do away with some of the most significant benefits of these kinds of heads.

In my case, the main reasons I went to a composter were:

#1. To recover significant space previously occupied by my old holding tank and plumbing.

#2. To greatly simplify my head setup so as to reduce or eliminate almost all head-related problems.

Moving to a composter meant recovering a large amount of storage space. It also made my head system a lot less complicated, and far less prone to failure. In addition to those first two reason, the other reasons I switch were:

#3. To stop limiting my cruising time by the size of my holding tank; no more need to up-anchor just to pump out the head.

#4. To make the boat a lot simpler and safer. A composter means two fewer holes in the boat, and only one small vent hose. There's almost nothing that can go wrong. And even if it does, the solution is a lot simpler; dump and start over.

#5. To reduce ongoing costs. I never have to pay for another pump out, or buy costly maintenance kits to replace valves, hoses, etc.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

Order a second pee jug when you purchase the head.

We have two. With this we can go for close to a week. But to be honest, I've never had to resort to using the second one yet. I've always been able to dump as needed.

[coopec43]

Mike
I go along with all your points - KISS ( Keep it simple stupid!)

But I plan to free flow the urine from the funnel into the holding tank. To empty it I have a manual diaphragm bilge pump. What could be more simple?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Mike
I go along with all your points - KISS ( Keep it simple stupid!)

But I plan to free flow the urine from the funnel into the holding tank. To empty it I have a manual diaphragm bilge pump. What could be more simple?

It's certainly simpler than a standard marine head. But like I say, for me, one of the big benefits was removing the existing holding tank and associated plumbing.

But dumping the pee bucket is the single most annoying thing about these heads. So some people certainly prefer a version of your approach. It can certainly work.

Someone mentioned the calcium/scaling build up that comes from urine. It certainly happens in our urine tank. To clean it I just give the tank a few bangs against the toe rail to shake all the build up loose, and then rinse it out with a bit of vinegar water. A stationary large tank would probably require some sort of chemical treatment (I guess) to keep it from completely clogging up.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's certainly simpler than a standard marine head. But like I say, for me, one of the big benefits was removing the existing holding tank and associated plumbing.

But dumping the pee bucket is the single most annoying thing about these heads. So some people certainly prefer a version of your approach. It can certainly work.

Someone mentioned the calcium/scaling build up that comes from urine. It certainly happens in our urine tank. To clean it I just give the tank a few bangs against the toe rail to shake all the build up loose, and then rinse it out with a bit of vinegar water. A stationary large tank would probably require some sort of chemical treatment (I guess) to keep it from completely clogging up.

I recently had to reduce the alkalinity of a lawn. I used white vinegar @ $1.00 /two liter bottle (cheaper than water?). I'm sure X 10 bottles of white vinegar would make short work of the calcium?

Maybe CLR (Calcium, lime and Rust remover) might be the way to go?

Of course any toilet system is going to need some basic maintenance.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Mike
I go along with all your points - KISS ( Keep it simple stupid!)

But I plan to free flow the urine from the funnel into the holding tank. To empty it I have a manual diaphragm bilge pump. What could be more simple?

You will probably need some sort of P-Trap in the urine line for odor control but that can be added later if needed. Also, if your outlet thru-hull is below waterline, it should have a vented loop.

From my perspective, head system is two big parts: the actual head, and the holding tank. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being maintenance/hassle free, I give the head a 5-6. Holding tank is 2-3 at best and as Mike points out, uses a ton of space, mostly from hoses. But if the problem being solved is because holding tank is too small, then using it for urine collection definitely answers the exam question.

Final idea I toyed with was diverting urine to an A/C Condensate Pump tucked next to CH beneath sink with discharge to a Tee in sink drain. They hold about a quart before they cycle. Would be fine to rinse with fresh water after each use. About $45 so not a huge investment. They run for years in actual use, but they are 120VAC. I'm not sure how water tight they are on a heeling or tossed boat, so a test would be needed prior to install. In the end, dumping a jug of pee isn't enough of a problem that it needs a solution in my mind.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Little-G...4425/204481225

[smj]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

You will probably need some sort of P-Trap in the urine line for odor control but that can be added later if needed. Also, if your outlet thru-hull is below waterline, it should have a vented loop.



From my perspective, head system is two big parts: the actual head, and the holding tank. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being maintenance/hassle free, I give the head a 5-6. Holding tank is 2-3 at best and as Mike points out, uses a ton of space, mostly from hoses. But if the problem being solved is because holding tank is too small, then using it for urine collection definitely answers the exam question.



Final idea I toyed with was diverting urine to an A/C Condensate Pump tucked next to CH beneath sink with discharge to a Tee in sink drain. They hold about a quart before they cycle. Would be fine to rinse with fresh water after each use. About $45 so not a huge investment. They run for years in actual use, but they are 120VAC. I'm not sure how water tight they are on a heeling or tossed boat, so a test would be needed prior to install. In the end, dumping a jug of pee isn't enough of a problem that it needs a solution in my mind.



https://www.homedepot.com/p/Little-G...4425/204481225

Only problem with the P-Trap is it would always be filled with urine so probably wouldn’t help the odor?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

... In the end, dumping a jug of pee isn't enough of a problem that it needs a solution in my mind.

This is where I'm at as well.

Dumping the pee bucket every two to three days is the worst part of a standard composting head. But it's really not that big of a deal.

Diverting urine to some sort of sump, or a holding tank, will reintroduce some of the problems that a composter solves. But I understand why some people do it, and it certainly seems to work just fine. Just not needed for me.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by smj

Only problem with the P-Trap is it would always be filled with urine so probably wouldn’t help the odor?

Agreed. A small rinse with water would be needed. Or you could vent holding tank with a fan to assure negative pressure in the tank. Either a p-trap or fan could be retrofitted later if needed, but I'm pretty sure that a direct opening from the urine catch basin to holding tank would result in substantial odors.

If the problem being solved is to extend holding tank capacity, OP may want to consider ElectraScan waste treatment center. Expensive and requires electricity, but is viable. I had an older model that I did not find dependable but I understand the newer ones are relatively reliable.

[alctel]

I know someone else who installed a natures head, but then also diverting the urine to a tank/pumpout

It really smelt bad apparently, and they replaced the entire system - so I wouldn't really recommend that. Emptying the pee is really annoying though, so I can see why it'd look like an attractive option.

[smj]

We empty the pee every morning to the marinas dump station and can’t say we find it annoying, just another daily chore along with walking the dog.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by alctel

I know someone else who installed a natures head, but then also diverting the urine to a tank/pumpout

It really smelt bad apparently, and they replaced the entire system - so I wouldn't really recommend that. Emptying the pee is really annoying though, so I can see why it'd look like an attractive option.

the cure would be a 1" pee trap in the middle of a 1/4 inch hose full with vegetable oil.
The oil floats on the urine effectively sealing the line . That's how the fancy waterless urinals work as well.