convince me to roll and tip, instead of spray

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have never painted a hull bigger than a Mirror Dinghy, my first boat … still bringing up the courage for my 64’ long current one…

I did some experiments with Brightside and I wasn’t impressed at all because it gave me countless bubbles where other paints I tested did not. This was with white paint, which doesn’t need tipping with many other brands I tried.

It isn’t easy for me to recommend Awlgrip to people who never used it. It is poisonous and even when rolling you need a cartridge respirator. But it is the best ever finish ai have seen. Watch all the YouTube videos, reduce more until just a roller provides the mirror-like finish (for white paint). You can’t repair/polish this paint and many call that a negative… but it is also maintenance free for 15 years or more and very durable. I haven’t seen a paint more durable.

The primer I use is Awlgrip 545. I believe it is the secret weapon of the Awlgrip system, and the topcoat is just to hide it and keep UV away. It is hard to get a nice finish from 545 and I always end up with orange peel. But it sands easy.

Our boat has original gelcoat where I didn’t paint yet. The parts I painted are much straighter, smoother, so I think I overdid the priming and fairing process.

Thanks s/v Jedi for the detailed breakdown. When you say that the primer leaves an “orange peel” finish, this is the finish I ended up with using Brightside after the top coat. This was a dark gray Brightside, fwiw.

It sounds like white is easier to work with. Our boat is a slight off white with original gelcoat in most places. I own cartridge respirators and I would likely purchase a full body suit for this job.

How is a painted awlgrip finish compared to gelcoat? Is it a rougher finish? I assume so.

[wingssail]

I know how to evaluate a paint job: You look at the side of the boat in the boat yard from on the ground next to it, against the sky, and maybe you see a reflection of a rig or telephone wire or just clouds; if the reflection is perfectly straight, no waviness, the paint is good. Otherwise, it is a 50 foot job and be thankful that other people won't be so critical. Everybody shows pictures of a shiny boat but from 10-20 feet and not against a good reflective sky. Any paint job looks good that way. I want better.

We are about to go into the yard ourselves for work which includes topsides painting, for the first time since 2009 (see photos).

This is a big deal for me, lots of expense and a risk of getting a bad job, so I am taking no chances; I am getting it sprayed. My last two paint jobs were sprayed and were good. In fact the most recent, 13 years ago, with Awlgrip, was perfect, I couldn't have been happier. (but there were problems and that is why we're doing it again now).

The time before that I knew nothing and the painter used Sterling, and anyhow I didn't know how to evaluate it. I guess it was OK. Well, this time we will be using Imron, not because I want it but because that is what is available and that is what the painter is comfortable with. So I'll try a different paint but this is not time for experimentation with roll and tip (or not).

Wish me luck, by November 30 we'll know.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

Thanks s/v Jedi for the detailed breakdown. When you say that the primer leaves an “orange peel” finish, this is the finish I ended up with using Brightside after the top coat. This was a dark gray Brightside, fwiw.

It sounds like white is easier to work with. Our boat is a slight off white with original gelcoat in most places. I own cartridge respirators and I would likely purchase a full body suit for this job.

How is a painted awlgrip finish compared to gelcoat? Is it a rougher finish? I assume so.

Awlgrip is like a glass mirror and gelcoat is like a sponge compared to it. You never have to wax the Awlgrip, just wash and rinse.

They have many colors of white. I use Insignia white and my non skid is egg shell white. I think you can paint a hull with just a quart of topcoat.
https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...ct-detail/8700

Take care where you buy it, last time I paid $80 and now see $105. Here in Florida there’s a local retailer with better prices than Jamestown Distributors.

[theller]

Update on this old thread. I went with a spray finish. Hands down higher quality experience at every step. I'm still going to need a cut/buff to get the little bit of orange peel I have out.

For applying high build primer, I wouldn't suggest anything but spraying. Rolling resulted in 75% of the paint being orange peel, sanded off. Waste of material.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by theller

Update on this old thread. I went with a spray finish. Hands down higher quality experience at every step. I'm still going to need a cut/buff to get the little bit of orange peel I have out.

For applying high build primer, I wouldn't suggest anything but spraying. Rolling resulted in 75% of the paint being orange peel, sanded off. Waste of material.

Not sure what paint you used but if Awlgrip then you didn’t follow the recommendations of this thread for correct thinning, because that gives a very flat finish with the 545 epoxy primer and a mirror finish with Awlgrip topcoat.

Fwiw, I think the manufacturer instructions are not clear because what they recommend as maximum thinning is actually minimum thinning for tropical weather conditions. I too was sanding off most of the primer until I found the correct thinning ratios.

[Benz]

While the thread still lives:

Has anyone rolled Awlgrip with flattening agent in it? I've done it, but can't remember (or find, since Awlgrip doesn't recommend it), whether the flattener becomes part of the topcoat measurement for converter (in other words, can you mix flattening agent into neat topcoat, mix it up, then do 2:1 with that brew and converter?), or whether the flattener is added in later.
I want to add just enough flattening agent to take a bit of shine off the decks, and also so it hides better (full gloss doesn't seem to hide as well).

[Mickeyrouse]

I’m not trying to say roll and tip will work with all paint in all conditions, but I’ve had very good results that I would match easily against spraying. I’ve had both done with Interlux Perfection.
The paint must be adequately thinned. Because the paint pot viscosity gets thicker as you work, thinner needs t be added periodically. As always prepping the surface is critical. Try to avoid working in direct sunlight.
Spraying of course can give great results. But it is hard to find a proper temp-and-humidity low wind day. Overspray is always a problem. It takes more equipment. Clean-up of the gun and other gear is more rigorous. You don’t want to breathe that stuff.
If rolling, you want to be sure you get the proper rollers. I use small Red Leaf fine nap.
I remember when I first heard about rolling paint on a hull. I expected results like a textured house ceiling. Little did I know.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

I’m not trying to say roll and tip will work with all paint in all conditions, but I’ve had very good results that I would match easily against spraying. I’ve had both done with Interlux Perfection.
The paint must be adequately thinned. Because the paint pot viscosity gets thicker as you work, thinner needs t be added periodically. As always prepping the surface is critical. Try to avoid working in direct sunlight.
Spraying of course can give great results. But it is hard to find a proper temp-and-humidity low wind day. Overspray is always a problem. It takes more equipment. Clean-up of the gun and other gear is more rigorous. You don’t want to breathe that stuff.
If rolling, you want to be sure you get the proper rollers. I use small Red Leaf fine nap.
I remember when I first heard about rolling paint on a hull. I expected results like a textured house ceiling. Little did I know.

Was this post accurate? Was that right? You are saying that you need to thin the paint more to roll it?

In my experience, it was like water when I was spraying my boat. It would never have worked on a roller because it would have run and dripped everywhere. It also would have left marks in the finish from the roller hairs. I would’ve had to thicken it to roll it. At least somewhat.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Was this post accurate? Was that right? You are saying that you need to thin the paint more to roll it?

.

Yes, though not to the thinning degree of spraying. Adequate thinning allows the tiny dimples created in rolling to level out. If it’s running, add more base paint. Suitably thinned paint will allow the ridges that may be created by tipping to level. I often get good results without having to tip.

Even spraying creates tiny droplets that eventually coalesce into a continuous surface. But as you roll, particularly on a warmish day, the paint in the roller tray (the pot) will be reacting to temp and air, so you will need to keep that at suitable rolling viscosity.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

Yes, though not to the thinning degree of spraying. Adequate thinning allows the tiny dimples created in rolling to level out. If it’s running, add more base paint. Suitably thinned paint will allow the ridges that may be created by tipping to level. I often get good results without having to tip.

Even spraying creates tiny droplets that eventually coalesce into a continuous surface. But as you roll, particularly on a warmish day, the paint in the roller tray (the pot) will be reacting to temp and air, so you will need to keep that at suitable rolling viscosity.

Ah! OK. That makes sense. From your earlier post I had thought you meant to thin it even more than spring. Which was confusing me.

[s/v Jedi]

Remember that you also need a different converter and a different thinner for rolling…. brushing converter and brushing thinner.

I think I have the flattening agent but didn’t experiment with it yet.