Coppercoat

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

When you do, please let us know how it goes!

I sure will. If I can find a camera (I keep putting them in 'safe places' only for them to instantly vanish - camera's these days are too darned small) I'll photograph each stage too.

If I can find my Xiaomi Yi, I have a 60mtr waterproof case for it, and I'll do some video's at regular inspection intervals (barring anywhere with cold water, brrrrrr, though I suppose I could use one of those silly selfie sticks all around the boat), and see how easy it is to wipe clean if needed.

It'll take about 3 months of heat for me to be able to get back in the water, so should work out good for the first inspection and wipe down.

[Schooner Chandlery]

We put Coppercoat on our boat in early 2009. It's been fine for us and you can go read various things I've written (good) about it on other threads. It's not a wiz-bang miracle product -- it's just something that works well and keeps working well.

Because it takes a little bit of time (few months) for the copper to oxidize in seawater to becoming cuprous oxide (seems I've spelled that wrong) it's not going to be super impressive right off the bat--it improves with that oxidation process. The epoxy is NOT a solvent based type resin. It is water-based and thinned with alcohol. It the copper particles closest to the surface oxidize and provide antifoul and then slowly over time the deeper particles oxidize and give the protection. After some period of years, if one hasn't been giving the boat an occasional scrub, in theory, one would have to re-burnish the surface to expose more copper so the process of oxidizing can continue. Pretty simple process and it just works.

There are some pics of our boat out of the water during our 2009 launch here.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

We put Coppercoat on our boat in early 2009. It's been fine for us and you can go read various things I've written (good) about it on other threads. It's not a wiz-bang miracle product -- it's just something that works well and keeps working well.

Because it takes a little bit of time (few months) for the copper to oxidize in seawater to becoming cuprous oxide (seems I've spelled that wrong) it's not going to be super impressive right off the bat--it improves with that oxidation process. The epoxy is NOT a solvent based type resin. It is water-based and thinned with alcohol. It the copper particles closest to the surface oxidize and provide antifoul and then slowly over time the deeper particles oxidize and give the protection. After some period of years, if one hasn't been giving the boat an occasional scrub, in theory, one would have to re-burnish the surface to expose more copper so the process of oxidizing can continue. Pretty simple process and it just works.

There are some pics of our boat out of the water during our 2009 launch here.

Mirrors my experience. And what a beautiful boat!

[Iredsell]

My experience of coppercoat is limited to use in the Solent , River Hamble and English Channel north of Brest. Boat is therefore in sea water and normally in use for 12 months. Average scrub off every 3 months frequently in the warmer sunnier summer months.

My application of coppercoat has been done twice on my hull and three times on my keel ( reasons to do with substrate and not coppercoat)

It is my observation that coppercoat has the potential to be effective, but in my case it only demonstrates this in a few small areas, for example where hull supports were coated prior to launch. In these locations the slime and grass weed that gathers at the waterline and up to half a metre below can be wiped off.

In other areas ie the majority of the hull the coppercoat needs to be fairly aggressively blown off with a power water house during lift out. Also in deep water areas at the base of and towards the deeper parts of the keel there is a considerable build up of tube worm and barnacles for which coppercoat has no ability to stop. I have rubbed it down to "re activate" it but find that although the colour changes temporarily to brown and then reoxidises that this has little positive effect. The finish of the coppercoat was applied by roller and is reasonably smooth but not as smooth as if sprayed which was promised but not delivered by the contractor. I do think that the "micro dimples" allow the grot to grip!

After 5 years of testing it is my belief that coppercoat has some potential but after two professional applications and visits from coppercoat AMC there is no clarity on why the solution appears to work for some and not for others.

I think that some owners are reluctant to admit that scrubbing regularly is definitely required and some are willing to live with the performance drop which I as a past dinghy racer do still notice, in my case the worst case is that there is regrowth in the summer within 3 weeks which has to be quickly scrubbed off by hand in its early growth. If left for longer it can be "mown" with a scraper but not removed as it appears to leave spores/roots in the coppercoat from which growth quickly resumes. This causes me to lose 1/2 to 1 knot within a month under power and any amount of sailing at 5 to 6 knots does not loosen it.

It could be that a period of dormancy from a more extended lift out kills the active growth from UV and desiccation but a quick intertidal lift does not do the same.

I really wish that coppercoat was more effective for me, I am buying a bigger boat and I want the coppercoat proposition to work for me, but until there is a consistent view based on proper evidence such as growth, location, scrub times and ease of removal we are none the wiser other than to say some are happy and some not. Blaming improper application was not supported by AMC in my case as they scraped the hull with a coin and said there was sufficient copper, whatever that means.

Perhaps a clear objective independent survey is required to find the proper working solution as even here there is limited consistency of view and lots of hearsay and emotion which is clearly unhelpful.

My first post and I hope this is an objective review, by the way exactly the same subjective bipartisan position is happening with ultrasonics I think.

[Jim Cate]

Iredsell, thanks for that objective report. I think that your observations are worth more than most of the reports posted here and elsewhere, for they are unemotional and without obvious bias. Well Done, mate!

I share your wish that it worked better, for I grow weary of the yearly slipping and painting,, and like you, am not willing to take the performance degradation.

Jim

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Iredsell

My experience of coppercoat is limited to use in the Solent , River Hamble and English Channel north of Brest. Boat is therefore in sea water and normally in use for 12 months. Average scrub off every 3 months frequently in the warmer sunnier summer months.

My application of coppercoat has been done twice on my hull and three times on my keel ( reasons to do with substrate and not coppercoat)

It is my observation that coppercoat has the potential to be effective, but in my case it only demonstrates this in a few small areas, for example where hull supports were coated prior to launch. In these locations the slime and grass weed that gathers at the waterline and up to half a metre below can be wiped off.

In other areas ie the majority of the hull the coppercoat needs to be fairly aggressively blown off with a power water house during lift out. Also in deep water areas at the base of and towards the deeper parts of the keel there is a considerable build up of tube worm and barnacles for which coppercoat has no ability to stop. I have rubbed it down to "re activate" it but find that although the colour changes temporarily to brown and then reoxidises that this has little positive effect. The finish of the coppercoat was applied by roller and is reasonably smooth but not as smooth as if sprayed which was promised but not delivered by the contractor. I do think that the "micro dimples" allow the grot to grip!

After 5 years of testing it is my belief that coppercoat has some potential but after two professional applications and visits from coppercoat AMC there is no clarity on why the solution appears to work for some and not for others.

I think that some owners are reluctant to admit that scrubbing regularly is definitely required and some are willing to live with the performance drop which I as a past dinghy racer do still notice, in my case the worst case is that there is regrowth in the summer within 3 weeks which has to be quickly scrubbed off by hand in its early growth. If left for longer it can be "mown" with a scraper but not removed as it appears to leave spores/roots in the coppercoat from which growth quickly resumes. This causes me to lose 1/2 to 1 knot within a month under power and any amount of sailing at 5 to 6 knots does not loosen it.

It could be that a period of dormancy from a more extended lift out kills the active growth from UV and desiccation but a quick intertidal lift does not do the same.

I really wish that coppercoat was more effective for me, I am buying a bigger boat and I want the coppercoat proposition to work for me, but until there is a consistent view based on proper evidence such as growth, location, scrub times and ease of removal we are none the wiser other than to say some are happy and some not. Blaming improper application was not supported by AMC in my case as they scraped the hull with a coin and said there was sufficient copper, whatever that means.

Perhaps a clear objective independent survey is required to find the proper working solution as even here there is limited consistency of view and lots of hearsay and emotion which is clearly unhelpful.

My first post and I hope this is an objective review, by the way exactly the same subjective bipartisan position is happening with ultrasonics I think.

Thank you very much. This is the sort of honest feed back I was eluding to. It's very valuable to hear the negatives as well as the positives. I've purchased my $3k worth now, ready to install, so it's all steam ahead for me to trial it.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Iredsell, thanks for that objective report. I think that your observations are worth more than most of the reports posted here and elsewhere, for they are unemotional and without obvious bias. Well Done, mate!

I share your wish that it worked better, for I grow weary of the yearly slipping and painting,, and like you, am not willing to take the performance degradation.

Jim

Well I sure hope that wasn't directed at me… and I am not sure who it was directed at really (on this thread anyhow), but what I have said is quite clear: Coppercoat is not some magical fairy silver bullet that cures all ills. There are no such things at all. It is a good product with a specific usefulness: it does not need to be reapplied wholesale for the best part of a decade or so and can be maintained in the water.

Iredsell's contri is useful and of course welcome, of course and Welcome to the forum!

However several of us have stated it does need maintenance in the water. It is not as effective as some of the better ablatives, but it is far far better than nothing, as is clearly evidenced by the extreme difference in fouling rates between coppercoated areas and those left unprotected, such as my prop shaft. If I kept a boat in a marina and hauled it out every few months after a season of sailing, I would likely just repaint with normal ablative paint or whatever. However in long distance sailing applications this is neither convenient nor in many cases possible (depending on the size of vessel to some extent of course!) and so coppercoat provides a very useful long term alternative which is indeed effective.

But no, it isn't some magical panacea, and I don't think any of the users here who are happy to use it after long experience suggested that it was.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Is it the same product?

Here is a small data fact.

There AMC product (UK) is sold under the name of "Coppershield" in Australia as the name "Coppercoat" is owned by someone else - not sure who

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

RC, for what it is worth... I'd pay some attention to fstbttms views. He does not own a boat with CC on it, but he is intimately (!) familiar with many of them. The owners of the boats that he pictures upthread probably meet your description of folks who have tried it and don't like it... they just don't happen to be CF contributors. Fstbttms may be a bit "direct" at times, but he has seen and cleaned more bottoms than the rest of CF combined. I think his experience is a useful data input.

I for one would be happy if the stuff would work for me... I'm just not convinced that it would as yet, rather the contrary in fact. That's why I'm interested in your experiment!

Jim

Jim, FWIW, I have only ever used the AMC product (Coppershield in Aus / Coppercoat elsewhere) on Blue Moon II .

Applied around 2006 or thereabouts, launched in 2009 and still going strong. Might need recoating next year - not sure yet.

I had mixed responses with it in the Swan river (very high fouling area) but very very happy with it south of 43 S in Oz .

Maybe we can discuss it more over a glass or too

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Here is a small data fact.

There AMC product (UK) is sold under the name of "Coppershield" in Australia as the name "Coppercoat" is owned by someone else - not sure who


Jim, FWIW, I have only ever used the AMC product (Coppershield in Aus / Coppercoat elsewhere) on Blue Moon II .

Applied around 2006 or thereabouts, launched in 2009 and still going strong. Might need recoating next year - not sure yet.

I had mixed responses with it in the Swan river (very high fouling area) but very very happy with it south of 43 S in Oz .

Maybe we can discuss it more over a glass or too

Thanks for that, Geoff, and I look forward to the discussion... my shout!

Jim

[LLCoolDave]

This might open up a whole other can of worms but I was watching this youtube video and this couple bought a kit to make copper epoxy (not paint). They said it is supposed to last ten years and they got three coats on the hull for $250! Pretty sweet IMO, the do say that you do need to clean the hull more often. I would just like to get some feedback from people more knowledgeable than me. They actually start painting around the 5min 30 sec mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfoKBL37BuA

[Lepke]

I have a wood boat with a copper plated bottom. I paint it. Spots w/o paint still grow stuff.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

We put Coppercoat on our boat in early 2009. It's been fine for us and you can go read various things I've written (good) about it on other threads. It's not a wiz-bang miracle product -- it's just something that works well and keeps working well.

Because it takes a little bit of time (few months) for the copper to oxidize in seawater to becoming cuprous oxide (seems I've spelled that wrong) it's not going to be super impressive right off the bat--it improves with that oxidation process. The epoxy is NOT a solvent based type resin. It is water-based and thinned with alcohol. It the copper particles closest to the surface oxidize and provide antifoul and then slowly over time the deeper particles oxidize and give the protection. After some period of years, if one hasn't been giving the boat an occasional scrub, in theory, one would have to re-burnish the surface to expose more copper so the process of oxidizing can continue. Pretty simple process and it just works.

There are some pics of our boat out of the water during our 2009 launch here.

A picture of the bottom now would be a lot more interesting than a pic of it immediately after paint application.

[Jim Cate]

Well I sure hope that wasn't directed at me

No, of course not, mate. Your contributions have been useful and straightforward. But over the years, I've read a lot of stuff on this subject that didn't seem to be objective at all, and that sort of stuff is what i was hinting at.

Jim

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

No, of course not, mate. Your contributions have been useful and straightforward. But over the years, I've read a lot of stuff on this subject that didn't seem to be objective at all, and that sort of stuff is what i was hinting at.

Jim

Fair enough Jim, thanks.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

A picture of the bottom now would be a lot more interesting than a pic of it immediately after paint application.

Hi there,

Well this is my boat moments after being hauled and BEFORE pressurewashing (you can see the mud on the keel at bottom, as the marina where hauled bottoms out at lowest tide), after a continuous year in the water, in waters from New Zealand to Thailand, and 7 years after application.

Yes there was some maintenance in water, but really not much. I didn't do it at all for about half that year because of the crocodiles…

Hope that helps