Coppercoat after 6 months away

[BenBowSirocco]

I worked for a company for 2.5 yrs that cleans boat bottoms in the Tampa Bay area literally by the hundreds every single week of the year and they have found nothing that is perfect. Nothing that lasts forever and nothing that does not need to be cleaned regularly.
It is their incredibly experienced opinion that any boat expecting to sail should be cleaned at least once a month regardless of whatever you slather onto the hull.

Now, I know that the colder the water the slower the growth. I know that different regions grow at different speeds. I know that current and tidal movement make a big difference.

But guys, seriously expect to rub down the bottom of your boat once a month at least in the tropics. Its not that hard and most of us could use the exercise.

[Bycrick]

If I’m not in the US, I have no reason to care in the slightest what US or California laws say. If the US says I can’t paint with TBT and bring the boat to the US, then that’s a choice I’m free to make. I’m not advocating the use of TBT paint. I don’t. I use Pettit Trinidad and have for years, with what I’ve found to be good results in my sailing grounds. I reject the idea that ideologues and advocates of whatever stripe assume that everybody else in the world ought to agree with them. That’s the kind of person I am.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

If I’m not in the US, I have no reason to care in the slightest what US or California laws say.

Well in point of fact (in addition to the United States), 91 other seafaring nations around the planet have made the use of tributyl tin-based anti fouling paints illegal. But why should a self-righteous eco-rebel give a f*ck about what he does to the environment, right?

[Bycrick]

Over the long term, I’d agree with fastbttms recommendations. I’ve known one Amel that cruised for years quite successfully with Micron 66. I’ve used Trinidad for 20 years in tropical Pacific waters with good results. When I was last hauled out, a boat in the same yard had been painted with Trinidad, then left in the anchorage for ten years with no care at all. It still only took the yard crew a couple of hours to clean it.

[er9]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

If I’m not in the US, I have no reason to care in the slightest what US or California laws say. If the US says I can’t paint with TBT and bring the boat to the US, then that’s a choice I’m free to make. I’m not advocating the use of TBT paint. I don’t. I use Pettit Trinidad and have for years, with what I’ve found to be good results in my sailing grounds. I reject the idea that ideologues and advocates of whatever stripe assume that everybody else in the world ought to agree with them. That’s the kind of person I am.

did you consider for a moment the possibility that the US may be right on this issue, they are extremely toxic long term and their use was banned for good reason? The environment doesn't have borders. are you an adolescent rebel or an intelligent, open minded adult?

[BenBowSirocco]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

If I’m not in the US, I have no reason to care in the slightest what US or California laws say. If the US says I can’t paint with TBT and bring the boat to the US, then that’s a choice I’m free to make. I’m not advocating the use of TBT paint. I don’t. I use Pettit Trinidad and have for years, with what I’ve found to be good results in my sailing grounds. I reject the idea that ideologues and advocates of whatever stripe assume that everybody else in the world ought to agree with them. That’s the kind of person I am.

TBT has been banned by the International Maritime Organisation as well as the European Union, Japan, US, Canada...

Essentially a very large portion of the developed world has banned this substance because it destroys and kills everything around it. So you may be completely free to choose to use it and I would argue for you to continue to have that freedom as thats the kind of world I want to live in- but that still makes anyone selling paints with it and anyone using it a dick. We know its not a good idea to use it, so lets use our brains and not use it.

I mean I assume since your on this forum you enjoy the marine environment and do not want to have a large negative impact upon it simply for the convenience of not scrubbing the boat once in a while.



Quotes from WIKI:
"The TBT slowly leaches out into the marine environment where it is highly toxic toward nontarget organisms. TBT is also an obesogen.[2] After it led to collapse of local populations of organisms, TBT was banned.

Bans on TBT on boats less than 25 metres long first started in the 1980s. In 1990, the Marine Environment Protection Committee adopted Resolution MEPC 46(30), which recommended that the Government eliminate the use of TBT-containing antifouling paints on smaller vessels. This resolution was intended to be a temporary restriction until the International Maritime Organization could implement a ban of TBT anti-fouling agents for ships. Several countries followed, and in 1997 Japan banned the production of TBT-based anti-fouling paints.[10] In 2008 organotin compounds acting as biocide like TBT compounds were banned in anti-fouling paint and included in the Rotterdam Convention[28] and have been banned by the International Convention on the Control of Harmful Anti-fouling Systems on Ships of the International Maritime Organization.[10] "

[Cheechako]

Today's Bottom paint kills some stuff, but usually not before it grows on there. It may retard growth a bit.
You need new bottom paint every year to try to control it, but stuff will grow.
In my area green slimy algae/grass will grow on brand new bottom paint in 2 weeks... and be 6" long in spots! This is an example from my little power boat that I kept in a slip only in the summer. I'd go down to take it out and it would have "hair" everywhere.

[Bycrick]

My obligation as a citizen or visitor requires me to conform with the laws where I reside. If I don’t, then notwithstanding what 91 other counties think, the local authorities are likely to take a dim view of my behavior. I might choose to observe more stringent laws promulgated someplace else, but I’m under no obligation, legal or moral, to do so. And just because I don’t agree with someone’s political position, doesn’t mean I’m an evil person. You can try to save the world your way, but don’t try to tell me what I have to do to satisfy you.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

Over the long term, I’d agree with fastbttms recommendations. I’ve known one Amel that cruised for years quite successfully with Micron 66. I’ve used Trinidad for 20 years in tropical Pacific waters with good results. When I was last hauled out, a boat in the same yard had been painted with Trinidad, then left in the anchorage for ten years with no care at all. It still only took the yard crew a couple of hours to clean it.

We too have used Trinidad for many years and had good long term protection from hard growth. In the last few years, Pettit has been changing the Trinidad formula. Two years ago we put a new bottom on w/the newer Trinidad formulation (reduced copper and don't know what else), but the performance isn't what it used to be.

In fact, during the 1st year we were starting to get hard growth, which was atypical w/previous formulations. While it still maybe better than some, we are disappointed and will be looking for another brand when we redo the bottom.

[Tortuga's Lie]

What does the U.S. Navy use for their ships? I heard a rumor that they use a tin based product but can't confirm.............

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Tortuga's Lie

What does the U.S. Navy use for their ships? I heard a rumor that they use a tin based product but can't confirm.............

The Navy (for the most part) uses the same copper-based products that you and I do. Why do they do this when they are exempt from U.S. law regarding tin-based paints? They do it because they have to do business in foreign ports all over the world and in those places, they are not exempt from laws regarding tin-based paints. Not to mention the public relations issues they'd have in this country if their fleets were sitting at piers, leaching a horrible poison into our waterways.

[Bycrick]

The quote from Wikipedia just proves my point: "boats under 25 meters." So the people who don’t have big, commercial or military ships, can’t use it. The big guys, who can hire lobbyists, are just fine using TBT. That’s the same logic that requires me to have an "approved marine sanitation device" on my boat in SF, when the cities dump millions of gallons of raw sewage when there’s a big rain.

I’m in no way an advocate for TBT bottom paints. I’ve stated repeatedly that I don’t use them. But I reject the idea that advocates and ideologues, no matter how well intentioned they think they are, should be able to force their way of thinking on other people,.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

The big guys, who can hire lobbyists, are just fine using TBT.

No, they can't. It's been banned. It's illegal for anybody (private or commercial, regardless of vessel length) to use it in this country. Not sure what about that you don't get.

BTW- Wikipedia is a user-edited platform. The information imparted there is not guaranteed to be accurate or up-to-date.

[sailing_gal]

I am very surprised to hear of this. I applied Copper Coat to my boat about 3 years ago. On haul out 18 months ago, the pressure washer removed every bit of muck that was on the bottom. Now, the boat has sat for about a year without moving here in Spain due to Covid-19. I just had a diver go down and clean the props for me, he did just a little bit of scraping along the waterline, but otherwise the bottom is pretty much clean. So, I have a couple of comments.....
1) You said you had somebody apply the CopperCoat. Did you watch? Surface preparation is extremely important. Also, some yards that spray it on thin it out too much. It is easy to get it wrong.
2) It is the copperoxide that is the growth retardant- the green. So, if you over scrub it, you are actually removing the growth inhibitor. Scotchbrite pads are fine, just don't overdo it.
3) Did you activate the coppercoat before it was initially launched? The copper is in a sort of epoxy solution and you have to lightly sand the bottom to make sure the copper is exposed for it to work properly.

I have been quite happy with the product. I applied it with the help of 2 friends who had experience with the product.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by sailing_gal

It is the copperoxide that is the growth retardant- the green. So, if you over scrub it, you are actually removing the growth inhibitor. Scotchbrite pads are fine, just don't overdo it.

Removing some of the epoxy carrier is required to expose new biocide.