Coppercoat after 6 months away

[Davidhoy]

I've had Coppercoat on my boat for about 18 months now, and so far very happy with it. I live aboard in a high-fouling area, and boats around me develop some serious encrustation and soft growth is they are not regularly cleaned. While it's not a miracle product that never needs any attention, it seems to do the job for me, at least so far.

[Bycrick]

TBT may be illegal in the US, but I keep trying to point out to you that the US isn’t the whole world. Even if 91 countries have banned it, that means something like 110 haven’t banned it. So if I’m in one of them, why should I care if others have banned it? Just because something is required, or banned, in the US, or someplace else, doesn’t imply that I have to follow those rulings wherever I go, regardless of the laws where I’m at.

You say that the US Navy is "mostly" using the same paints as everyone else. That’s just wonderful, but you then go on to explain that as being the result of other countries laws and the need to do business there. Not a hint that the Navy is concerned with the "environment." It’s just more convenient.

No comment, I see, on the under 25 meter ruling.?

All of the environmental rulings are ultimately based, at least theoretically, on risk-reward. Could one ban PFASs for non-stick frying pans, or fast-food packiaging? Sure. A little grease in the pan or soggy French fries. To me, that’s an easy choice. As a fire fighting agent where it’s apparently very effective? What’s the trade-off?

Just because you, your friends, your state or your country made a decision on the cost-benefit ratio, doesn’t give you the right to try and enforce that on everybody else in the world.

[nepal]

Coppercoat on my boat was applied in 2014 and it still on it. I sailed North & Baltic Sea, Atlantic Ocean and Caribbean Sea.
Growth depended on the place I sailed. Boa Vista (Cape Verde)was the worst. We had to clean the bottom every 3 weeks as did the other boat with another paint too. Their owners were jealous because the green weeds removed so easily, and we had fewer barnacles. Only a pair and they had plenty of them.

I'm happy with Coppercoat. It is satisfactory cleaning the hull snorkeling because it is easy (almost everyone agrees on that) and fast, I enjoy the fishes swimming around me and I don't haul out so much. Other paints will satisfy other kind of sailors.

[Davidhoy]

Some people are so stubborn that it's not even worth trying to engage with them. You don't have to be an eco-nazi to recognize the benefits of not using TBT-based antifouling paints, regardless of the local regulations or lack thereof. Sadly, being obtuse and argumentative, just because you can, will not do much to "win friends and influence people".

[SimonP]

What we need is a suction cleaner for hulls similar to the ones used in swimming pools.
Switch it on whenever you're on a mooring and the hull will be clean by morning.
I wonder if such a thing exists?

[Bycrick]

Were not discussing the pluses or minuses of using TBT. I don’t. But it seems that you think that anyone who won’t adopt you beliefs is simply stubborn and argumentative. Of course all right thinking people should agree with your positions. And because you think you’re perfectly correct, you should be able to shame and denigrate anyone who doesn’t agree with you. If the only way to "make friends and influence people" is to agree with them on any and all subjects, then you’re right: I’m not interested.

As for my not caring about the environment, I live on my boat, don’t have a car, get almost all of my electrical needs from solar. Last year, I used 55 gallons of diesel fuel. When you get down to my footprint, then maybe I’ll start listening to your ideas on reducing impact to the environment.

[Muaddib1116]

I mean, if you're a hiking enthusiast and you think that it's ok for hikers to litter on the trails in a place that doesn't have litter laws, just because it's legal, you may be correct, but I'm not sure that most of your peers will be impressed.

[Locquatious]

An oceanographer neighbor was friends with another oceanographer. The oyster and clam catch was diminishing rapidly in the Chesapeake. The watermen and seafood suppliers associated with the Chesapeake were going out of business. The two discovered that it was tributyl-tin that was killing off the sea life. From then on, the two oceanographers. dubbed the "clam guys", were celebrated around the Chesapeake for their efforts to ban the use of TBT. The seafood industry was saved.

[Bycrick]

Ah, the old straw man argument. When I camped and hiked through the west, I carried all the trash out with me, or burned it or buried it deep. Not because there were any laws at the time, but because it was good manners. I often found myself cleaning up after previous campers. But I didn’t pat myself on the back and brag how I was saving the world. Or accost them on the trail telling them what they should do.

When I was in Mexico about 10 years ago, they had trash cans on the beach. All the gringos were happy. When they filled up, they took them to the slough behind town and threw them in. Somewhat later, they threw them into a deeper ditch on the side of the highway. So there was far less environmental damage just throwing the non-plastic trash in the water. Is that the way I’d like it in a perfect world? No. But the world isn’t perfect.

If you want to make the argument that hundreds or thousands of boats using TBT in the Chesapeake, or Marina del Rey, or SF bay isn’t a good idea, I’ll heartily agree.

But the idea that because the US, or anybody else,, banned something that everybody else, everywhere ought to just follow along doesn’t sit well with me. Where I’m at, whatever TBT came off the few hundred recreational boats would immediately be washed out to sea and dispersed. Why should the people here follow the same rules as SF Bay or the Chesapeake?

[Muaddib1116]

Nobody is accusing you of anything, you've made it very clear that you don't use TBT. And as I said, to the very specific point you have been making, you are correct. Regardless, some of us are obviously unimpressed with your take on it. And obviously, you don't have to care about whether we are unimpressed or not.

[malcolmlj]

I applied coppercoat to my Moody 38 in the UK.Sailed UK and French waters for nine years
I then sailed to the Med for 5 months, then across the Atlantic to the Caribbean nine months in the Caribbean then on to the USA making landfall in Georgia. Spent a year sailing north to Northern Main.
Finally re-did the coppercoat in Main after eleven years.
In all that time I never did more than an annual lift out and pressure wash.
I ensured the mixing and application conformed precisely to the user instructions.
My experience is if mixed and applied as instructed no other treatment approaches the effectiveness of coppercoat.

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

Were not discussing the pluses or minuses of using TBT. I don’t. But it seems that you think that anyone who won’t adopt you beliefs is simply stubborn and argumentative. Of course all right thinking people should agree with your positions. And because you think you’re perfectly correct, you should be able to shame and denigrate anyone who doesn’t agree with you. If the only way to "make friends and influence people" is to agree with them on any and all subjects, then you’re right: I’m not interested.
.

You completely missed the point. The way to "win friends and influence" people is not about agreeing with them, but about not being an unbearable ass.

[Bycrick]

Thanks, Davidhoy. When the argument deteriorates to the point where you have nothing to add but calling your opponent names, I can feel vindicated.

[SalingSue]

I have micron CSC, warm water, it’s been like 4mo and I have been dock life with work, yet no visible growth.
The boat is also pulled annually for inspection.

That photo seems excessive growth wise, especially for the labor and materials that go into copper coat.

I’ll rack copper coat up with dyneema standing rigging, looks sweet in theory, real life not so much

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

Thanks, Davidhoy. When the argument deteriorates to the point where you have nothing to add but calling your opponent names, I can feel vindicated.

You have little to feel vindicated about, since you've earned almost universal scorn for your attitude. But, knock yourself out, believe what you want, that's clearly how you like to operate. I'll leave the last word to you, since you obviously like to beat a dead horse.