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Old 30-10-2020, 21:49   #121
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
Coppercoat should be labelled as exercise. Works great for a couple of years in temperate climes then becomes a nightmare and is totally useless in the tropics. When it starts to erode as it does after many years it comes off in places but not others. The only way to eradicate it was to wet sand ahhh...

I now know of more boats who have anti-fouled over it than think it is any good.

Before anyone asks it was professionally applied over striped epoxy hulls.
We have had good experience with Alltex (Australia 2.5 years) and Pacifica Plus (Caribbean 2 years). Both of these required no scrubbing at all.
Your view of course - the facts are Coppercoat actually works better in the tropics in many cases, because the chemical reaction of copper oxidation is enhanced. I know a number in the tropics who swear by Coppercoat, and doing a search on the web, there are plenty more to be found in the tropics who like Coppercoat.

Flaking off? There's that surface preparation issue again .......
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Old 30-10-2020, 21:50   #122
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
One of these days there is going to be a CopperCoat thread that has posts from ONLY people who have used it and which stays on topic of CopperCoat.

Meanwhile I have never used CopperCoat. But I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once many years ago
I admire your optimism there
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Old 30-10-2020, 21:56   #123
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

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Originally Posted by Shaneesprit View Post
Thanks for letting me know I can re activate my copper coat - I had my boat a few years now and have the first signs of some soft growth on one side.
I have never touched below the waterline before, I had assumed that it wasn’t applied properly in that area.
Only been on the boat twice over the season - due to Covid restrictions
Yep - we are having to re-activate ours after 8 years. Over those years we found from nothing, to light slime, to a bit of furring, to a bit of vegetative growth (few millimetres long) was the progression. I re-burnished some areas as a test (first time since it was applied) and voila - back to nothing, like the first year.

The website says to use 400-600 grit paper - I prefer pads as they get into the texture better.
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Old 30-10-2020, 21:58   #124
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

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Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post

DO NOT BE FOOLED BY ANY OF THESE COPPER INFUSED EPOXY RESIN PRODUCTS.

They do not work.
Gee - we all must be so wrong then - thanks for setting the record straight .
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Old 30-10-2020, 22:56   #125
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Re: Trinidad for me

I have had the same sail boat since 1983, and sailed it extensively in the Pacific waters and contributories from Alaska to Panama for the last 20 years. I have tried numerous bottom paints over the years, but found nothing as good as Pettit Trinidad My current paint was used because it was all I could get in Chiapas. It is a PPG product that might as well be interior household latex. It is showing growth at the first cleaned area, by the time you get the rest cleaned. Petit Trinidad has lasted 5 years, with no cleaning the first year, a little at the waterline years 2 and 3, and before starting a passage in years 4 and 5. The money you save on haulouts and cleanings make it very reasonable. I too have heard that the new formulation is not as effective, and will be recoating this year in MX, so will soon find out.

There has been a lot of pressure on paint manufacturers to reduce the copper content, and its rate of release, based on a few studies that have indicated traces of copper in enclosed waters with marinas. Since copper is toxic to many seawater natural organisms, it is assumed it is harmful. It is a logical argument, but has not been proven that I know of. Unlike TBT, its harmfulness to marine growth, again a logical assumption, is not proven. Nevertheless, Petit Trinidad has been banned from sale in California, and since that is a huge market, Petit as all others is trying to make paints acceptable to regulators. We pay a huge price in more expensive, less effective coatings.
However, we cannot afford to have a substantially degraded environment, so we should pay the piper and make an effort to help the environment whenever possible. The TBT issue has been well established as doing major damage to anchorages and marinas, and so has been illegal there in the US for a long time. Most of the world has had the same experience with it. It is aknown serious toxin whose negative impact far exceeds any benefit. It originally was not banned from large commercial vessels, because they rarely sit for any substantial time in enclosed waters, but are moving the majority of time. Now, however, it is banned as far as sale and application in the US on all ships, though my understanding is that foreign ships with it on, are not prohibited from ports by federal law. It is illegal for a vessel with it under 25 meters to even enter US waters.

Thus, I agree with both the arguments. Clearly there is a tendency in California particularly, to jump to regulate or ban something based on emotion, rather than science. On the other hand, something like TBT has been studied widely and found to be very harmful in many situations, and thus, whether illegal or not, no one should use it on the basis of protecting our world.
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Old 31-10-2020, 00:54   #126
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

The variety of opinions on CF is only matched by the variety of styles of expression of those opinions. The last post was a masterclass..
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Old 31-10-2020, 01:32   #127
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post
Yep - we are having to re-activate ours after 8 years. Over those years we found from nothing, to light slime, to a bit of furring, to a bit of vegetative growth (few millimetres long) was the progression. I re-burnished some areas as a test (first time since it was applied) and voila - back to nothing, like the first year.

The website says to use 400-600 grit paper - I prefer pads as they get into the texture better.
Talking to the Company boss at a boat show he was recommending a brown scotchbrite pad. Gave me one too. No mention of abrasive papers.
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Old 31-10-2020, 01:44   #128
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

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Originally Posted by CATJAVA View Post
Since CC is so hard we clean w/ metal scrapers & steel wool every 1-2 months. Easy to clean. We usually beach the cat every 2-3 years to give it an orbital sanding with 150# sandpaper to expose more copper.. I don’t think you’ll get it any better.

As I said earlier scrapers and steel wool every 1-2 months is not anti-fouling it is exercise.


The process of sanding / burnishing the epoxy substrate is probably more harmful than chemical solutions as fine epoxy particles are classified as microplastics.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...taking-a-toll/


Altex #5 lasted 2.5 years in SE- Asia Philippines and Indo without ever scrubbing.
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Old 31-10-2020, 05:19   #129
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

We have CopperCoat and also had a covering of light green across the whole hull. We started in May (new Coppercoat) from A Coruna, Galicia, then left the boat for 5 weeks in Mid Summer in Cagliari. Came back to lots of small crustaceans on the hull. Had it scraped by a diver, but this still left the calcium rings and some green growth. We think there was not much if any impact on hull speed but required regular wiping down as far as we could reach.
We then left the boat in Venice for an extended winter (due to Covid), so late October 2019 to early July 2020. The growth was terrible but most sprayed off - see photo. The boatyard wasn’t surprised as they only recommend a very soft antifouling that renews in light current flow...... but needs replacing annually. Took us two hard days to scrape off the calcium rings and then one more to scotchbright the surface. Six weeks later in Dubrovnik and the hull came out pretty clean. Now on the hard so should be fine for next season. Result - Covid permitting.
Coppercoat were fine and talked about an increasing number of fouling hot spots that relate to specific harbours and lagoons with warmer water and extremely high levels of general growth. I suspect a little pollution too so the normal ecosystem is compromised. Our experience so far reflects this - we need a register that indicates these hotspots and how to best counter the threat eg what antifouling for that year.....
Perhaps we should learn from some of the recent solo racers experience. I believe Coppercoat with one coat of Seajet proved best and kept the hull clear. Others became badly fouled and lost serious boat speed.
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Old 31-10-2020, 06:14   #130
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

Quote:
Originally Posted by captchetco View Post
I have had the same sail boat since 1983, and sailed it extensively in the Pacific waters and contributories from Alaska to Panama for the last 20 years. I have tried numerous bottom paints over the years, but found nothing as good as Pettit Trinidad My current paint was used because it was all I could get in Chiapas. It is a PPG product that might as well be interior household latex. It is showing growth at the first cleaned area, by the time you get the rest cleaned. Petit Trinidad has lasted 5 years, with no cleaning the first year, a little at the waterline years 2 and 3, and before starting a passage in years 4 and 5. The money you save on haulouts and cleanings make it very reasonable. I too have heard that the new formulation is not as effective, and will be recoating this year in MX, so will soon find out.

There has been a lot of pressure on paint manufacturers to reduce the copper content, and its rate of release, based on a few studies that have indicated traces of copper in enclosed waters with marinas. Since copper is toxic to many seawater natural organisms, it is assumed it is harmful. It is a logical argument, but has not been proven that I know of. Unlike TBT, its harmfulness to marine growth, again a logical assumption, is not proven. Nevertheless, Petit Trinidad has been banned from sale in California, and since that is a huge market, Petit as all others is trying to make paints acceptable to regulators. We pay a huge price in more expensive, less effective coatings.
However, we cannot afford to have a substantially degraded environment, so we should pay the piper and make an effort to help the environment whenever possible. The TBT issue has been well established as doing major damage to anchorages and marinas, and so has been illegal there in the US for a long time. Most of the world has had the same experience with it. It is aknown serious toxin whose negative impact far exceeds any benefit. It originally was not banned from large commercial vessels, because they rarely sit for any substantial time in enclosed waters, but are moving the majority of time. Now, however, it is banned as far as sale and application in the US on all ships, though my understanding is that foreign ships with it on, are not prohibited from ports by federal law. It is illegal for a vessel with it under 25 meters to even enter US waters.

Thus, I agree with both the arguments. Clearly there is a tendency in California particularly, to jump to regulate or ban something based on emotion, rather than science. On the other hand, something like TBT has been studied widely and found to be very harmful in many situations, and thus, whether illegal or not, no one should use it on the basis of protecting our world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris in SG View Post
The variety of opinions on CF is only matched by the variety of styles of expression of those opinions. The last post was a masterclass..
I couldn't agree more. Objective, well explained, presents the often competing policy considerations succinctly. And for those who sincerely care about the environmental issues more than they care about their own ego gratification (as pathetic as that is in an anonymous online forum), this sort of post is not only more persuasive but also elicits much less pushback & controversy than the consistent displays of self-righteous moral indignation we so often see. I only hope the regulators who have concluded that less copper content in bottom paint is beneficial to the environment have objectively considered the potential negative environmental impact of increased haul-outs.
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Old 31-10-2020, 07:19   #131
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

I guess environment plus local conditions fauna plays a great part in appropriate choice of anti-fouling. As said previously I am very pleased with my copper in epoxy coating and have only lightly hand sanded twice in five years though the growth each time before that had been minimal.
I am surprised at a couple of comments such as that when the copper oxidises is becomes useless, I had been led to believe that even if the copper undergoes such reaction it remains biocidal and in the same comment it was stated that the copper remains sealed under the epoxy and therefore can’t be effective, if so sealed I wonder how would it react to form oxides.
Clearly there are widely different experiences of this anti-fouling method and can quite accept all reports being valid, with different products; quality of its application and local environment conditions all making that difference.
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Old 31-10-2020, 08:32   #132
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Re: Coppercoat after 6 months away

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Originally Posted by David B View Post

Flaking off? There's that surface preparation issue again .......

Never experienced flaking off! Erosion yes after 10 years. It had been pained over after 3.
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Old 31-10-2020, 11:30   #133
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Re: Trinidad for me

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Originally Posted by captchetco View Post
Petit Trinidad has been banned from sale in California...
Your post is rife with erroneous statements. But this one is tops.
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Old 31-10-2020, 11:46   #134
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Re: Trinidad for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Your post is rife with erroneous statements. But this one is tops.
fstbttms, It is interesting that you resort to snarky comments. Seems to be your style. You don't need to do that. You could have pointed out the error, and others you believe were present, and let it go at that.

In fact that's how we like to see our forum go, disagreements? OK, politeness? Yes, but you seem to prefer insults and snarkyness. And add an eyeroll to it.

Personally I prefer the folowing comment about the exact same post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris in SG View Post
The variety of opinions on CF is only matched by the variety of styles of expression of those opinions. The last post was a masterclass..
So, fastbttms, your "style of expression" isn't appreciated and gives you less, not more, credibility, just because people don't like to hear it the way you choose to express it.

Why don't you try to be a friend instead of a , well I don't know, Jerk?
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Old 31-10-2020, 11:49   #135
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Re: Trinidad for me

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Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
So, fastbttms, your "style of expression" isn't appreciated and gives you less, not more, credibility, just because people don't like to hear it the way you choose to express it.

Why don't you try to be a friend instead of a , well I don't know, Jerk?
Imagine how much sleep I lose worrying about what you think of me or my replies.

Maybe you'd be better served by questioning posts presented as gospel when in fact they are flat out wrong rather than whining about what a mean person you believe me to be.
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