Could use a little advice. Aluminum or Fiberglass for this?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Ballsnall

So buy a MIG welder and get it done, otherwise just fab it out of plywood with a heavy layup schedule.


Forget the splice, if you can't find a section of mast then it's not something you can fabricate.

Forget bolted alloy, find a welder or do it yourself with laminated plywood which are used as mast supports anyway.

Forgive me because I’m a little new at this, but isn’t it TIG welding?

But I think the plywood heavy laminate schedule is the way to go maybe for something temporary. That could be done quick.

As far as the splicing goes, look at my last post. Imagine for a second if I do have a metal guy that is actually working. Which I just might all of a sudden after this whole thread. I just heard from him right now.

Isn’t it possible to just match the simple elliptical shape of my Mast? Using one piece of aluminum from 0° to 90°, the next from 90° to 180°, the next from 180° to 270°, and the final one from 270° to 360°? So four pieces of aluminum bent to the mast profile shape and welded together? Won’t that work?

And finally, I’m totally with you there on the plywood. I think I will just do that if nothing works out with this metal guy on the Mast part of the job. That way I can just try this thing out and see if I like it. From there, I can ditch the plywood and get a real splice done eventually.

Thanks for the input. I am in agreement.

[Ballsnall]

I would be very wary of a DIY mast splice including a welded splice. Go with a tabernacle.
Left ball, removes all issues, just fit the mast as is and live with a slightly lower performance?

[Ballsnall]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Forgive me because I’m a little new at this, but isn’t it TIG welding?

TIG is the ultimate for light fabrication but MIG is the norm. The most important item is a spool gun to feed the wire.

Isn’t it possible to just match the simple elliptical shape of my Mast? Using one piece of aluminum from 0° to 90°, the next from 90° to 180°, the next from 180° to 270°, and the final one from 270° to 360°? So four pieces of aluminum bent to the mast profile shape and welded together? Won’t that work

Sounds easy, but very difficult to match the profile accurately, and it needs to be accurate for a strong splice.
[/QUOTE]

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Isn’t it possible to just match the simple elliptical shape of my Mast? Using one piece of aluminum from 0° to 90°, the next from 90° to 180°, the next from 180° to 270°, and the final one from 270° to 360°? So four pieces of aluminum bent to the mast profile shape and welded together? Won’t that work?

I mentionned this in your first thread on this mast issue back some time ago . . . but I had a 'hand made' splice in my mast (near the mast base) at about the same place you need, because like you I could not get a matching tube.

The splice had a 2 piece internal sleeve (180 degree pieces, front piece and aft piece) - very heavy, 10mm aluminum. Custom bent plate. This was plug welded in place (drawn up snug with bolts and welded and bolts removed and those holes also plug welded). This work was done at a metal shop on Vancouver island (subbed out from a rigger who 'designed' it).

This has now lasted for 15 years with no issue - (including a NWP and a RTW via the southern ocean)

[rslifkin]

Aluminum can be MIG-ed with a spool gun and appropriate shielding gas. Won't generally be as pretty as TIG, but can be made plenty strong.



If this new metal guy doesn't want to do the mast thing, call around to some racecar shops. Some of them do in house fabrication, so as long as you can find one that has a guy that knows aluminum, that might be another avenue to get this finished.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

I mentionned this in your first thread on this mast issue back some time ago . . . but I had a 'hand made' splice in my mast (near the mast base) at about the same place you need, because like you I could not get a matching tube.

The splice had a 2 piece internal sleeve (180 degree pieces, front piece and aft piece) - very heavy, 10mm aluminum. Custom bent plate. This was plug welded in place (drawn up snug with bolts and welded and bolts removed and those holes also plug welded). This work was done at a metal shop on Vancouver island (subbed out from a rigger who 'designed' it).

This has now lasted for 15 years with no issue - (including a NWP and a RTW via the southern ocean)

Yes. Exactly! This is the ideal solution.

This is what I would hope to be able to do. Except mine might be four pieces rather than two pieces. So that it fits a little bit better. So that it looks just like the mast and is very accurate shape to mate perfectly and carry the compression load.

If I can get my metal guy, the latest one, to do the work, this is what I will do for sure. Without a doubt. It’s the best way to do this.

Everything else is if I cannot get anyone to do the work.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Ballsnall

I would be very wary of a DIY mast splice including a welded splice. Go with a tabernacle.
Left ball, removes all issues, just fit the mast as is and live with a slightly lower performance?

The Mast can’t be fit as is. It’s too short. Even if it could be, which it can’t, I would not destroy the boat performance. I would rather destroy the looks any day. I prefer functionality over image. .

[Breaking Waves]

edit: note - the splice I describe above was a replacement for a badly (and fraudulently) done splice by a well-known Florida rigger (I paid for a one-piece mast that had to be custom shipped from Holand, instead he spliced two pieces he had lying in the yard and covered it over with faring and paint and said it was one piece). I would never have known if he had done a quality job, but it cracked and my partners were the only thing preventing me from losing my mast in the southern ocean.

My point with this note is that there are forces at work at this point. Probably dynamic forces rather than the static forces you calculated up thread. Enough force to crack a poorly done splice.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Ballsnall

TIG is the ultimate for light fabrication but MIG is the norm. The most important item is a spool gun to feed the wire.

Sounds easy, but very difficult to match the profile accurately, and it needs to be accurate for a strong splice.

[/QUOTE]

Agreed. It has to meet in a perfect plane, and the edges all have to line up perfectly to carry the compressive load.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Aluminum can be MIG-ed with a spool gun and appropriate shielding gas. Won't generally be as pretty as TIG, but can be made plenty strong.



If this new metal guy doesn't want to do the mast thing, call around to some racecar shops. Some of them do in house fabrication, so as long as you can find one that has a guy that knows aluminum, that might be another avenue to get this finished.

OK. Worth a shot. Thanks for the idea to try to find new people. Of course, I have never welded anything in my life. I don’t think welding up a mast is really the best place for me to start. Ha ha ha.

It’s funny how a lot of people on here are more panicked about a simple deadweight structure to hold the mast up then they are about some novice like me welding the mast. Ha ha ha. I would not trust anything that I self welded. I don’t know anything about welding.

But I can tell you this. In the amount of time it has taken to get people to do any work at all, I could easily have become an underwater welder. And I should have. In hindsight I should have just taken a welding course. It would have been significantly faster.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

edit: note - the splice I describe above was a replacement for a badly (and fraudulently) done splice by a well-known Florida rigger (I paid for a one-piece mast that had to be custom shipped from Holand, instead he spliced two pieces he had lying in the yard and covered it over with faring and paint and said it was one piece). I would never have known if he had done a quality job, but it cracked and my partners were the only thing preventing me from losing my mast in the southern ocean.

My point with this note is that there are forces at work at this point. Probably dynamic forces rather than the static forces you calculated up thread. Enough force to crack a poorly done splice.

Whoa!!!!

That is an incredible tale of caution.

I have some less than good things to say about some the most popular riggers in Florida also. Not the ones I am talking to right now, but the ones I have talked to throughout the project to try to get some of these things done.

I’m absolutely floored that they robbed you like that. But then, not that surprised.

The faring is probably what broke right? The bending cracked it? That tipped you off?

Or did the actual splice break?

I have a lot of confidence and a properly done splice. Seeing as how every mast in the world is spliced these days. They don’t make them longer than a shipping container anymore.

But the lineup has to be perfect. And the internal piece of the splice hast to fit well also. Plenty of fasteners. Like this.

[MicHughV]

When do we get to go sailing on this boat ??...I'm ready !!!

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

When do we get to go sailing on this boat ??...I'm ready !!!

Me too!!!

As you can see, I’m fighting the good fight to get us out there. Ha ha

I am hoping for a February trip maybe? January would be better. Hopefully I can make January. I’m sure I will still be working out some kinks in December.

As soon as it’s sailing, i’ll be able to extend the invite. You’ll have to excuse that the interior is not going to be done, but we can take it out and see what it does.

In case people aren’t aware of what we are talking about in this post, I’m opening up an invite to everyone who has helped me with things like this thread. People who have contributed meaningfully to the outcome of the boat project. People who may not have a chance to sail on a boat like this one.

It’s kind of the opposite of a Patreon or go fund me. Instead of taking from the crowd, I’m trying to give back.

Just a way to say thanks to everyone for participating in my threads.

There are a couple people who have really participated a lot and helped tremendously. And I hope they can make it.

And that is some of the urgency also. I want to get this going and let’s go sailing! I’ve had enough of sitting around and waiting. Let’s go!

[s/v Jedi]

If you can’t find a guy to fix your mast then I would try to find a longer mast or put it on as it is. My main mast is only 59’ above deck but with full battens and no backstay you can put a big sail up. I have 73% of the mast-boom rectangle as sail area… compare that to 48% of boats with in-mast furling and it’s obvious why they need tall rigs with all the extra cost.

[CarlF]

I'll get to the material in a moment -

If you had access to aluminum with the same section of the mast, this would be easy. You would just splice a piece on the bottom with a long sleeve over the joint. A 5' longer mast isn't enough to require a different section unless it was undersized to start.

Since you likely don't have a section, I would stay as close as I could. Really almost all of the force should be compression - straight down. So I would start with a post that is roughly the same dimension as the mast. Then build your pyramid around it for lateral support.

Maybe even the cut off bottom of a wrecked mast. Or maybe four aluminum tubes with a thick wall section. Or a carbon fiber tube. Or a welded box the sizes of the mast. It would be great if you could figure a way to "sleeve" this to the mast. Your pyramid's job then is simply to keep the mast in column rather than hold large side loads.

I think either G10 or aluminum is fine. Or a combination. Maybe just use tubing for the pyramid sides. Would maybe look better. As you know, thick G10 is a pain to cut. If you want to bolt aluminum, use aluminum bolts to avoid corrosion - just use more of them to compensate for the weaker sheer strength. And because the parts are relatively small you could probably get it anodized locally. But the bolts won't be under much load if the mast is sitting squarely on a vertical post.