Cracked Rudder

[Klonergan]

Hello,

My Viking 28 sailboat is currently on the hard at CBYC in Scarborough. We are currently floating our docks, and during construction my rudder was clipped by a forklift and flexed until the fiberglass and foam core cracked down to the steel peg that connects it to the hull and tiller.

It's hard to see in the picture but if you look at the top of the rudder you can see it's about half an inch in width, and 6 inches in length.

Does anyone have any suggestion on how to fix this? The foam is still dry, so bonding shouldn't be an issue. I was going to tape the gap, fill it with West Systems Epoxy, use clamps to push the two sides together as much as possible, and then let it dry. After I was thinking 2 or 3 layers of fiberglass down the length of the crack.

The rudder is quite stiff so I'm not sure how close I'll be able to push the two half back together. I guess if it is full of epoxy it doesn't matter if the rudder is a little wider? This is all frustrating as the 50 year old rudder was still dry as a bone.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!

Kevin.

[Chotu]

It might be easier to use a really long length of rope around that thing many times to keep it closed. Or potentially some yellow straps from the hardware store.

Filling it with epoxy Is a good idea. It’s not necessary to bond foam with epoxy, but in this case it is such a weird crack that you might be better off.

For the glass, You should take note of the original thickness of the glass in the area that you are repairing. Sand (grind) that back to make a sort of dish pan shape in the glass only, not in the foam, around the area you intend to repair. And then put the same amount of glass in that dish and overlapping onto the existing glass. In this part of the rudder, biaxial is probably your best choice.

That will create glass at the right height where the crack is, and getting Too thick as you move away from the crack. This is what you want.

As the final step, you grind off the part of the glass that is sticking out and too thick. That leaves you with a perfect repair. And a repair that’s the same as the original glass.

[Orion Jim]

I’m not litigious by nature but I have had lots of experience with fork lifts in a manufacturing environment. The damage you see is not the only damage you may have incurred. This requires a marine surveyors attention and I personally would want a professional to perform any repairs. This is no time to learn the trade. Just my opinion......

[Lepke]

Use West #404 high density filler with the epoxy. It makes a much stronger bond.

[Klonergan]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I like the idea of using a ratchet strap to pull the rudder back together.

In terms of additional damage the bearings and steering seem to be ok. I only have 1 month before the boats are launched so it will have to be a quick do-it-yourself repair. Ontario will be on full lock down tomorrow so I don't think a survey or outsourcing will be possible.

Thanks again and if there are any other suggestions please let me know.

[Chotu]

Looking at one of the other poster’s comments about high density filler, that’s a good idea. And I wish I had put that in my post. I forgot. You are definitely going to need something to thicken the epoxy to get it to stick everywhere inside the foam. An alternative to bond foam is also gorilla glue. Anything that will rip the foam apart before it releases its bond with the foam is adequate. Gorilla glue works great. My dagger boards are made with it bonding corecell together. In fact, I would go with gorilla glue over anything else for the inside of that area. Because it will expand and reach into all of the cracks.

[jimbunyard]

You can do a strong, long-lasting, almost-good-as-new repair in about 3-5 days, but to do it right you need to pull the rudder.

My approach, once the rudder is out, would be, with the rudder horizontal and the split facing up, to spread the crack as much as possible without making it worse, and then coat as much as the interior flayed surfaces as you can with some catalyzed neat epoxy resin.

Then mix some more resin and add milled fibers to make a runny paste and pour it in before the initial resin coating has gone off, and then clamp the whole thing together with a couple of 6" C clamps, with a couple of strategically-placed, waxed paper-wrapped 1 X 2s used to distribute the clamping forces.

It will be messy and ugly.

Once everything's gone off, remove the clamps and break off the 1 bys, grind
the rudder back to shape, minus the amount you'll add back with new laminate, and laminate 3-5 layers of medium-weight cloth around the leading edge, staggering the layers so the trailing edge is feathered.

Fill the weave left from laminating with the appropriate below-the-waterline, easy-to-sand filler, sand smooth, seal with a few coats of neat epoxy or epoxy primer, paint and then bottom paint.

If you've never done this, best to get some experienced help, or at least practice before working on the real thing.

A blush-free epoxy will make your life easier.

If you can work inside, you'll have better control.

Wear proper protective gear; gloves, mask with carbon filters, full face is better than half face (your eyes also absorb volatiles).

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

I’m not litigious by nature but I have had lots of experience with fork lifts in a manufacturing environment. The damage you see is not the only damage you may have incurred. This requires a marine surveyors attention and I personally would want a professional to perform any repairs. This is no time to learn the trade. Just my opinion......

I agree with Orion Jim, here, and I'll try to explain why. Please forgive me if i am not clear enough.

When the "clipping" happened, you can't know what has happened to the bearings or their housings, but may have been damaged. The "pin", what we would call the rudder post, may have been bent. When it is bent, stainless steel work hardens, and becomes brittle. It is not that if you were desperate you couldn't repair all of that, but it will be better, and safer, if someone with experience does it. You want rudders to come out right, easy to use and the right foil shape.

Good luck with it.

Ann

[Klonergan]

Thanks everyone for the comments they've been quite helpful.

I'll attempt to pull the rudder to do the epoxy and fiberglass work but there may not be enough clearance to pull the rudder through. Lifting the boat won't be an option.

It sounds like I was on the right track, but I need to strengthen the epoxy, use at least 3 layers of cloth, and I'll try clamps and ratchets to pull the rudder together while the epoxy. Metal fatigue from the strike is a concern but I'm not sure I can properly assess that under the current conditions and timeline. Hopefully I can get the summer out of it and reassess next year. I've done fiberglass repair work, but this is somewhat unique. Sanding will fix all.

Final question. I have $5000 insurance on the boat, and a $500 deductible. Has anyone used insurance to fix a similar issue? Could I get a new rudder and steering assembly out of this for 500 bucks Or is that wishful thinking for a 1973 sailboat?

[mike d.]

You would have to contact insurance for the last question ! They would send their own adjuster ! From what I see, and what you say in previous, it sounds like there is something amiss inside the rudder/shaft, if you have that much tension, as to not be able to push the 2 sides back together ! It would seem to me that something, has bent, or you have foam dislocated causing the shin to not lay normal ! You really need to find out why the skin won't go back into position, before you start repairs ! If there is something dislodged around the shaft, ie a welded tab broken free, your repair would be not !

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Looking at one of the other poster’s comments about high density filler, that’s a good idea. And I wish I had put that in my post. I forgot. You are definitely going to need something to thicken the epoxy to get it to stick everywhere inside the foam. An alternative to bond foam is also gorilla glue. Anything that will rip the foam apart before it releases its bond with the foam is adequate. Gorilla glue works great. My dagger boards are made with it bonding corecell together. In fact, I would go with gorilla glue over anything else for the inside of that area. Because it will expand and reach into all of the cracks.

Gorilla glue is great stuff, but worthless for this problem. It only works for tight fitting applications, it is NOT a "gap filling" adhesive.

Yes, it does "foam up" and fills the space but that "foam" has no more strength than any other polyurathane foam, and is worthless as a glue. It can't glue things together unless they are actually touching across the entire surface to be bonded.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by billknny

Gorilla glue is great stuff, but worthless for this problem. It only works for tight fitting applications, it is NOT a "gap filling" adhesive.

Yes, it does "foam up" and fills the space but that "foam" has no more strength than any other polyurathane foam, and is worthless as a glue. It can't glue things together unless they are actually touching across the entire surface to be bonded.

That’s why he needs to squeeze the thing together. The foam will take up a very small gap just fine.

Gorrila glue is perfect for bonding structural foam to itself.

The bond has to be stronger than the material you are bonding. Go get some corecell (best structural foam made) and glue some pieces together with gorilla glue.

Try to rip them apart. The foam rips apart before the bond. That's the definition of an appropriate adhesive and that's that gorilla glue is for structural foam.

At least it can fill a 1 mm gap by expansion. Something epoxy can't do. He will end up with a core with no voids if he does it with gorilla glue. If he does it using epoxy, he will have voids, ubowy it's absolutely perfectly clamped.

I stand by my post. Gorilla glue is a better adhesive for this situation. He’s working blind and clamping.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Chotu

....Gorilla glue is a better adhesive for this situation....

No, it's not.

If he were gluing only foam to foam, Gorilla goo might be Ok for that application (but hardly ideal).

He is, however, attempting to bond various materials to themselves and other materials, with no way to differentiate or isolate which is being bonded to which, therefore he needs a glue that provides the best range of adhesion to all the relevant surfaces; closed cell, (likely) polyurathane foam, polyester-resin-infused fiberglass and stainless steel.

The only 'glue' that checks all those boxes economically is epoxy resin.