cracks in keel top in bilge

[Fore and Aft]

Buddy Y there is nothing technical about using a jack hammer. Hire one from the Home Depot and put in the chisel attachment and go for it. I have hired so much gear that I have no idea about. Once the ballast is half loose you just bucket it out to the nearest bin. Then vacuum out the dust and small debri. The good thing about most concrete ballast is that it should easily break up. I would'nt let a problem like this stop you buying the boat if the price is right.
Cheers

[boatpoker]

It ain't gonna sink, The keel simply cannot fall off.
Patch the cracks and go sailing.

A buddy of mine is turning one into a (Fisher Price) tug boat.

[Fore and Aft]

That was my other thought boatpoker. I surveyed a 40' fiberglass Spray that had some big cracks in the concrete ballast. The new owner poured a heap of polyester resin down the cracks, glassed the top of the concrete right to the edge of the bilge then flowcoated the whole area. When I came back for a look the bilge looked perfect, what will be interesting is seeing how it holds up a few years later?
Cheers

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Buddy_Y

Thanks for the advice everyone! Pessimism is creeping in, alas. The boat was already a marginal project, and its saving grace was that it was a blank slate -- no huge issues, just absences.

The fuller story on the boat is that the PO, after going out west and leaving the boat basically untended on the hard for years, came back to find it flooded. He subsequently hired someone to rehabilitate it, but says that this person developed health problems after tearing out the interior. Thus, he gave up and decided to sell it, in part because of storage costs.

I'm attaching an interior shot below. (Taken from the 'for sale' ad.) As you can see, she's gutted. No electrical left, no plumbing worth the name, the wood taken out, no electronics. The old engine would have to be replaced too. And there's not a stick of wood on the deck from the tillers to the toe rails that isn't scrapwood.

Yet, the mast is pristine, the decks seem to have no soft spots, and the hull seems fine to me. The sails and cushions are in storage and are allegedly in good shape. ("Allegedly" because I haven't seen them and the owner is problematical. For example, he claimed that the boat had full working electrical system on the phone. Upon inspection, I found every single wire and panel and light fixture torn out, except for a couple ancient rust strands dangling like cobwebs. Zero percent electrical system, not one hundred percent -- quite the difference.)

Yet, for the nominal price being asked, a person could justify the costs of new electrical, new carpentry, and a new engine etc, if they were willing to do the work themselves. I've rewired a couple of older boats back in the day, I've got a humble little wood shop, and I already priced a repowering with a local mechanic / Beta rep. It was doable.

But alas, if the keel needs to be dug out? I can't see a DYI amateur like me messing with jackhammers alas.

Perhaps instead of guessing, and instead of peeling out bucks for a full survey, I should engage a maritime mechanic for an hour just to come out and check this one problem? I've got a suspicion he'd poke around a bit and then tell me to run away.

Keel appears to be the least of your worries. It will cost you 20 grand just to make it off the dock and three times that for basic cruising (doing the work yourself) I’d keep looking.

[Jim Cate]

The world is teeming with mid sized frp yachts for sale, many of them at very low prices. I'm wondering if there is any sensible reason to deliberately step into a b oat that will require so much effort and money, just to get it into floatable condition. When you add in a questionable keel (and yes, I reckon that this is very questionable!) the odds get even worse.

I just can't see there being an up-side to this transaction... even if the boat was free.

Jim

[IslandInfedel]

What a neat little design



I’d sound it with a hammer and see what you hear, appears to be a very stout little boat, I’d put my chips on cosmetic.

It seems like it would be a fun project if you can do most of the interior and wood work, and more over have the time and money for materials to do it. If all else is good, rig, sails, etc, and the price is right, be a fun DIY boat, but a VERY expensive “do it for me” boat.

[Buddy_Y]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The world is teeming with mid sized frp yachts for sale, many of them at very low prices. I'm wondering if there is any sensible reason to deliberately step into a b oat that will require so much effort and money, just to get it into floatable condition. When you add in a questionable keel (and yes, I reckon that this is very questionable!) the odds get even worse.

I just can't see there being an up-side to this transaction... even if the boat was free.

Jim

I think you're right. Viewed from a "Do this project or don't go sailing" perspective, there's something to be said for soldiering on with it. But viewed from a "Do this project or buy that ready-to-go Alberg 29 over in Toronto" perspective, it doesn't make sense -- not in light of the keel problem.

[Pete7]

Oh that looks rather nice and in a very clean condition from the photos, shows someone has looked after her.

Tell the young lad in the petrol station to fill her up, you have a long drive ahead of you to go and view your next boat

[barnakiel]

BUT IS THERE INDEED A KEEL PROBLEM


or is it all at this stage an imaginary one?


How much of a project any project is depends on your set of skills and on whether you want to be building & repairing or sailing?


If something looks like a potentially TOO BIG a project to YOU, then it certainly is. Hired labour is very very expensive.


barnakiel

[jcdubreuil]

I think I've seen this boat up for sale on kijiji, sounded like a good deal to me, and I think you could somehow talk the owner into giving it to you if he pays some storage fees.

There is one for sale there, with a newish engine. Could give you an idea of what need to be done.
https://www.yachtworld.fr/bateaux/19...ca-30-3599564/

As someone said earlier, the keel might not even be compromised. If the engine is working, the rigging in good shape and the hull is somehow ok, you might be looking at a deal. It's a cool design, but then I am sold since I own one

Regards.

[RaymondR]

Just about all older used boats are going to have maintenance issues of some sort so it's probably a matter of budgetary and geographical restraints and which ones you feel you can take on and resolve successfully.

As Jim says, there are probably other choices and whilst it's worth an assessment to define whether the subject vessel is a good candidate or not you don't want to get bogged down in a major restoration project when better candidates are readily available.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

BUT IS THERE INDEED A KEEL PROBLEM


or is it all at this stage an imaginary one?


How much of a project any project is depends on your set of skills and on whether you want to be building & repairing or sailing?


If something looks like a potentially TOO BIG a project to YOU, then it certainly is. Hired labour is very very expensive.


barnakiel

Barnie, if it were ONLY the keel I might agree with you. But the keel is only the cherry on the top of the whipped cream... it is a total refit that is needed, including lots of joinery and mechanical replacement.

If it is the refit job that is the attraction, well ok. But if he wants to go sailing in the foreseeable future, a different boat seems a better choice to me.

Jim

[fatherchronica]

A little off topic, but around 1974, ‘75 my mother was living in California aboard a boat preparing to and then waiting for hurricane season to end to head South. She became friends with a couple that built a ferrocement boat in a Venice and attended their launch party. She showed me some photos. A couple years later that boat was on the cover of Cruising World lying at anchor in a lagoon surrounded by tall pointy Polynesian peaks. Every piece of rebar in the hull was visible as a orange brown lined stained through the topside paint. I was never too big a fan of ferrocement but always felt bad that these folks worked so hard on a boat destined to break to pieces.

[Bill_Giles]

We had cracks around the hull/keel interface. The repairer in effect replaced the hull where it meets the keel (about 2 x 4 feet) and some of the matrix (support structure) Cost in the region of £15,000 to fix.

[Buddy_Y]

Originally Posted by fatherchronica

A little off topic, but around 1974, ‘75 my mother was living in California aboard a boat preparing to and then waiting for hurricane season to end to head South. She became friends with a couple that built a ferrocement boat in a Venice and attended their launch party. She showed me some photos. A couple years later that boat was on the cover of Cruising World lying at anchor in a lagoon surrounded by tall pointy Polynesian peaks. Every piece of rebar in the hull was visible as a orange brown lined stained through the topside paint. I was never too big a fan of ferrocement but always felt bad that these folks worked so hard on a boat destined to break to pieces.

I hear you. I've been dazzled by the amazing boats that could be had for cheap since they are ferro, but even the videos of people happily repairing ferros that are marketed as "See how easy this is?" look grisly to me.

In my present boat search, an Aries 32 (analogous to a Westsail 32) came on the market in my region for a very good price. Only when contacted did the owner mention that he'd omitted from the ad the fact that it was a ferro. I find his argument that this decades-old boat would have sunk long ago if it was one of the 'bad' ferros convincing on a logical level. But still... Besides, a concrete WetSnail? You may never sink, but you also won't be moving much.