Damaged keel? Need advice.

[wallythacker]

I see quite a few boats with keels like the picture attached. There is a definitive delineating line on the keel.

What's being delineated is what I'd like to know. Also, is it something that needs to be fixed? Is it going to crack on the line and half the keel meets Davy Jones?

[LongRange]

Looks like external lead ballast. Old school and quality. The lead is cast into a shape that bolts into a corresponding cutout in the keel. To the bottom\left of the "delineator" is lead. To the upper right of the line is fiberglass, or whatever.


My guess is that it's not serious. As long as the bolts are in good shape, the "line" probably just needs to be filled and faired every so often.

[old frog]

Originally Posted by wallythacker

I see quite a few boats with keels like the picture attached. There is a definitive delineating line on the keel.

What's being delineated is what I'd like to know. Interface between the ballast keel and the hull. Often the joint is visible because of the material coefficient differences.

Also, is it something that needs to be fixed? It all depends. What is the condition of the keel bolts?

Is it going to crack on the line and half the keel meets Davy Jones?

This why it is usually prudent to hire a competent marine surveyor well versed in the construction type & method of the boat one is considering purchasing.

[a64pilot]

I have to ask, the bottom right of the keel, that is the rudder?
Can’t be, what is that?

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I have to ask, the bottom right of the keel, that is the rudder?
Can’t be, what is that?

Its a "trim tab" used to help balance out the boat.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Its a "trim tab" used to help balance out the boat.

I had wondered that, but thought surely not

[cal40john]

I once helped deliver Scaramouche, a Frers 49. It had a smaller wheel concentric with the steering wheel for the trim tab. Problem was it didn't do anything. Shortly after trim tabs were being put on race boats, the racing rules changed to ban them, so it was welded in place, as I was told by the owner.

Maybe the boat in the thread was built to be a Thames rule tonnage cheater (1850's). They were looking to reduce surface area and shortened the keel, but rudders were always still attached to the back of the keel.
https://books.google.com/books?id=wU...heater&f=false

[wallythacker]

Originally Posted by LongRange

Looks like external lead ballast. Old school and quality. The lead is cast into a shape that bolts into a corresponding cutout in the keel. To the bottom\left of the "delineator" is lead. To the upper right of the line is fiberglass, or whatever.


My guess is that it's not serious. As long as the bolts are in good shape, the "line" probably just needs to be filled and faired every so often.

That's not the boat I have a line on but it's the best picture I could find showing the seam between the lead and the glass. I'm glad it turned out to be a big fat nothingburger.

As for the boat I plan to buy, I love the easy access to everything under the sole. I found all the keel bolts (8 in total, about 1 1/8-1 1/4 bolts I'd estimate with corresponding huge nuts on them.)

It's a freshwater boat so there is no visible corrosion anywhere.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by wallythacker

That's not the boat I have a line on but it's the best picture I could find showing the seam between the lead and the glass. I'm glad it turned out to be a big fat nothingburger.

As for the boat I plan to buy, I love the easy access to everything under the sole. I found all the keel bolts (8 in total, about 1 1/8-1 1/4 bolts I'd estimate with corresponding huge nuts on them.)

It's a freshwater boat so there is no visible corrosion anywhere.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Personally I like internally ballasted boat ( no keel bolts to worry about) but that introduces a whole different bag of hammers to the mix!

[roland stockham]

Loosing the fairing material over the ballast to keel joint is very common. If it looks bad check the keel bolts. Sometimes they can stretch over time and allow a little movement which then sheds the packing. If there are rust streaks that may be more serious and indicate water penetration to the keel bolts which may in turn be corroded. If the bedding has gone the keel has to be dropped and refitted which is a serious job, most people don't know how to maneuver something weighing several tons!

[wallythacker]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Personally I like internally ballasted boat ( no keel bolts to worry about) but that introduces a whole different bag of hammers to the mix!

Me too, properly done the reef takes a pounding and not the boat when accidentally (or intentionally) grounding if the encapsulated keel is done right. I saw a Whitby hammer a rock hard in the lake and the only damage was a fairly deep gouge in the FRP. I'm sure a boat with a bolted-on keel would have the keel torn off at worst or twist severely at best.

Oh well, note to self, don't strike objects.

[LongRange]

Originally Posted by wallythacker

Me too, properly done the reef takes a pounding and not the boat when accidentally (or intentionally) grounding if the encapsulated keel is done right. I saw a Whitby hammer a rock hard in the lake and the only damage was a fairly deep gouge in the FRP. I'm sure a boat with a bolted-on keel would have the keel torn off at worst or twist severely at best.

Oh well, note to self, don't strike objects.

One of the alleged advantages of externally bolted-on lead ballast, as in the photo, is that lead is softer than just about any other boatbuilding material, and would absorb the energy of an impact by deforming, thus saving more of the rest of the boat.

As per your note, I would not want to test that theory.

[roland stockham]

Not sue I really see much difference between encapsulated and bolt on keels but ONLY if it is just the ballast that is bolted onto the bottom. The problem comes when the whole keel is a separate bolt on part. Fine for racing but not, in my opinion, suitable for cruising. I have never heard of the ballast falling off the bottom of a traditional built boat and they have been doing it for hundreds of years, pretty much since the tech was available to build big enough bolts!

[old frog]

Originally Posted by wallythacker

Me too, properly done the reef takes a pounding and not the boat when accidentally (or intentionally) grounding if the encapsulated keel is done right. I saw a Whitby hammer a rock hard in the lake and the only damage was a fairly deep gouge in the FRP. I'm sure a boat with a bolted-on keel would have the keel torn off at worst or twist severely at best.

Oh well, note to self, don't strike objects.

And then with internal ballasted boats, there are those incidents of: 1. Water entering into the encapsulated ballast chamber posing potential problems of freeze/thaw expansion damage. 2. The internal ballast chamber laminate fracturing in a submerged object strike/grounding, if not a cast ballast, loosing it's, or some of it's ballast. 3. Ballast chamber laminate damage in a hard lighting strike. I have seen all of the above.

There are pros & cons to each ballast method.

[JPA Cate]

We've had a boat with a bolt on keel, with the lead hanging out there. It does deform a bit if you strike something hard with it, and coral can break off and stick in it, as well. If the keel is bolted on well, it need not be torn off. However, repeated groundings will find other weaknesses in the design.

Ann