Dickinson Heater Questions - V.S. Sigmar V.S.?

[deltaten]

I will mail Webasto and ask about diff between vehicular and marine. Seems only diff is one character in mod. # and THREE times price. Cripes! I can buy a full sized house furnace for that$$$. Like all else "marine" I suppose?��

[01kiwijohn]

you realize Sigmar & Dickinson are both the same company, now?

[VanIslandGuy]

We had a Dickinson diesel fireplace on our Bayfield 32c. Bought the chimney guard, and had a piece of thick brushed stainless steel made to act as a heat shield/guard for the teak bulkhead. Diesel came via a small fuel pump feed off the main tank with a separate port from the engine, and a shut off valve at the tank.

The 6 years we used it it worked flawlessly. For a smaller volume hull like the B32c, this, some cabin fans, and of course dorades and CO2 detectors and you will be very happy. Normally we would run it on high for around 15-20 minutes to get the chill off, then leave it on low. It through off lots of heat, even below freezing I would start it up in the yard and in 20 minutes the cabin was warm. Used it under sail many times without issue as the amp draw was minimal. The little flame behind the window was a hit with guests, and most importantly, it drew all the moisture up and out the chimney giving us a nice dry cabin. We would get a tiny amount of soot around the deck chimney that would wipe clean with just soap and water.

For a larger boat I would consider a forced air or hydrronic system. I'm going through this exercise now, and will likely need to go with a hot water system as I don't think I have the room to run the duct work (4" diameter for the first 20') to get a forced air system installed properly to make it to the forward cabin and head without robbing space I use for storage.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by VanIslandGuy

It through off lots of heat, even below freezing I would start it up in the yard and in 20 minutes the cabin was warm. Used it under sail many times without issue as the amp draw was minimal. The little flame behind the window was a hit with guests, and most importantly, it drew all the moisture up and out the chimney giving us a nice dry cabin. We would get a tiny amount of soot around the deck chimney that would wipe clean with just soap and water.

The pulling the moisture out thing is definitely a nice thing to have! A big perk of diesel heaters over say, propane.

For a larger boat I would consider a forced air or hydrronic system. I'm going through this exercise now, and will likely need to go with a hot water system as I don't think I have the room to run the duct work (4" diameter for the first 20') to get a forced air system installed properly to make it to the forward cabin and head without robbing space I use for storage.

I'd not through of the space saving feature with a hydronic system vs. one with ducting. I'd always thought that you either went with a fixed heater, such as a bulkhead mounted one. Or go with a Webasto, & be forced to deal with the space losses due to ducting. Good tip!
The other part of this equation is that a hydronic system would be a good bit quieter, non?

Another perk to a hydronic setup is to route your lines so as to create towel dryers (in the head), & a drying system for the oilskins locker. As warm dry boots & foulies are great for morale. And the only bits of clothing that can be warmed/dried in the microwave, are hats, socks, & gloves

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

I'd not through of the space saving feature with a hydronic system vs. one with ducting. I'd always thought that you either went with a fixed heater, such as a bulkhead mounted one. Or go with a Webasto, & be forced to deal with the space losses due to ducting. Good tip!
The other part of this equation is that a hydronic system would be a good bit quieter, non?

Another perk to a hydronic setup is to route your lines so as to create towel dryers (in the head), & a drying system for the oilskins locker. As warm dry boots & foulies are great for morale. And the only bits of clothing that can be warmed/dried in the microwave, are hats, socks, & gloves

Hydronic is pretty much a must on a larger boat, unless you want to install multiple Airtops.

Yet another advantage is a hydronic furnace will heat domestic hot water -- ALSO key for crew morale

When we drop the hook after a winter sail with 4 or 5 wet, cold sailors all needing a hot shower, we turn on the hydronic furnace AND at the same time fire up the generator and switch on the 1.5kW immersion heater. Both heat sources together will just about produce an endless flow.

HOWEVER, hydronic heat is not actually quieter than the Airtop type, at least, not if you have the kind of crappy fan coils I have, which are very noisy, and which don't get switched off by the thermostat. Radiators would be better in that regard, but it's hard to find places to fit them.

So there's no ideal solution.

As to wet lockers -- it's easy to heat them regardless of the system. Just put a duct in there. Mine was originally built with such a heat duct in the wet locker (and also a drain in the bottom). Every boat sailed in colder places should have this.

[mitiempo]

Hydronic is a better choice for a larger boat - say over 45' depending on layout. While it does have advantages - smaller runs for hose than ducting, hot water and engine pre-heat, it consumes a lot more amperage than a forced air furnace. With the main unit and its fuel pump, circulation pump, as well as the individual radiator outlet fans it can be easily 8 amps or more.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

[COLOR=navy]The other part of this equation is that a hydronic system would be a good bit quieter, non?

The quietest hot air furnace of all is the Wallas. It was designed for marine use from the beginning, unlike Espar and Webasto which, although good heaters, were re-designed truck heaters where the noise is not the issue. The way the burner is designed in the Espar and Webasto they cannot be quiet. It is hard to hear the Wallas, it is so quiet it can be installed behind settees in the main cabin if the space works out.

[redhead]

Someone mentioned the Dickenson stovepipe lasting 10+ years. We have pictures of this stove when new in 1981. I can tell that the pipe has never been replaced because there's a very long scratch visible in the 1981 pics that's still there today. We use it daily from Nov to April. Overall pretty impressive

Sent from my SM-G900V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[suesue]

Originally Posted by redhead

. I can tell that the pipe has never been replaced because there's a very long scratch visible in the 1981 pics that's still there today.

Hi,

Im wondering if thats the same pipe being sold today.

Is it a solid true pipe? Or thinner stainless curved over and riveted?

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by suesue

Hi,

Im wondering if thats the same pipe being sold today.

Is it a solid true pipe? Or thinner stainless curved over and riveted?

I sell Dickinson and Sigmar stoves and heaters. The pipe only carries hot exhaust and should last decades. I have never seen solid exhaust pipe for any of these units.

[Liam Wald]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Sue.

Really? You are a dirt sailor?

[Liam Wald]

Where is Chuck Hawley when we need him?
Chuck dude, you out there?

[sailor1924]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

You'll likely be well served by a diesel heater. And it's nice to have them even if you also have a forced air setup like a Webasto, as they put out so much heat, sans electricity. Honestly, I wish that all boats were designed with having one onboard in mind. Even on boats in "moderate" climates.

Coils for heating water are advisable. Whether you wind up using them or not. Though it's sad not to. The heat's free, might as well use it. And water keeps it in the boat for longer as well as circulating it better when used in radiators.

Also, pick up one of the fans which is turned by the hot air rising off of the stove. They circulate air well, gratis.

And were it me, I'd look into adding some thermal mass in the vicinity of the stove. So that even when it's not on, or is on low, there's a good bit of heat in the boat. That way even if you turn the stove off, or close to it, when sleeping, the boat doesn't become an icebox.

If you're thinking about solid fuel stoves, especially ones that burn wood, get a good spark arresting system for them. As on Endeavor & some of the other J boats, when the stove/fireplace is in use, there's a crewman on deck who's job it is to see & extinguish any cinders which escape the chimney. Prior to their setting things like the mainsail on fire... Often a cold, & thankless job.

Edit: Does anyone have some thoughts on using finned heat exchangers on stove exhaust pipes? Perhaps ones akin to those built into the blocks of air cooled engines, or of another sort.

PS: Good (boat) insulation rocks! Heater or no.

I made a series of aluminum fins for my Sig Heater, they work very well, the overhead above the stove is about 90 degrees F as opposed to over two hundred prior to installing the fins. I also intalled a "Vac-u-vent" smokehead on deck and have completely eliminated downdraft problems even in 40 knot gusts.
The next heater project is to make an external water coil to send heat to the forward cabin. A water jacket can act as thermal mass as well as a transmission medium, and if it's setup with a remote expansion tank and a very small circulating pump it's possible to create a convective circulation that only needs the pump at startup, I did that on my old boat, added fin tube in the bilges and enjoyed warm feet.

[01kiwijohn]

Suesue, the standard flue pipe will do just fine. There's really no smoke to deal with, if you set it up and light it properly. The end that fits onto the stove itself need to be relatively thin as you have to squeeze it (by hand) to make it slightly oval so that it will fit onto the stove outlet.
The one modification that I did make was to drill, and put a small sheet metal screw, at each pipe-to-pipe joint to make sure that it did not come apart in the event that the boat suffered a knock down.
I also added the heat exchanger option, and ducted it down near the floor. It works well but, the fan is bloody noisy.....so, I've added a 25 ohm resistor which slowed the fan and made it so much quieter. (that's the size resistor I had in the shop but you can use anything that will get it down to about 7 1/2V to 8V or so.)
A friend of mine also installed the heat exchanger but he ducted it straight through the bulkhead, behind the stove, into the head; dries out their weather gear">foul weather gear like magic.

[mitiempo]

Sue

I can't recall if you posted it but how large is your boat?