Diesel fuel storage ~ curiosity

[N1EYO]

Closing up a can of paint last night, not really conscious of the mechanics of the task. I was irritated by the anticipated waste of paint that would go bad.

I then recalled an advertisement for the stuff called “Bloxygen”.
(inert gas system to protect leftovers)
Apparently, this is nothing more than displacing the oxygen in contact with the surface of the paint with inert Argon gas.

More gears turning.

Are there any chemists out there that would enlighten me if displacing the air in contact with the fuel in a diesel tank, with an inert, heavier than air gas would be an additional measure besides removing moisture, in preventing the liquid gold from spoiling?

A 10# tank would last a long time.

[Pete7]

We used Argon inside our drysuits when deep diving to reduce heat loss. Cost about 1p per lire at the time.

What makes you think diesel goes off? other than by something nasty growing in it.

Pete

[N1EYO]

That’s my meaning. If the possible algae is deprived of moist air, won’t that go a long way to help?

[Pete7]

I believe the bugs live the interface between the water and the diesel, using the diesel as a food supply.

You might be better off ensuring that water doesn't get into the tank in the first place.

1. So if the deck filler has an o ring, is it in good condition? leaving it for the winter? then a covering of petroleum jelly on the o ring won't hurt.

2. Have you inspected the inside of the tank, is it clean now?

3. Have you dosed the fuel with your favourite bug cleaner?

4. Do you buy fuel from a reputable source? is it winter diesel if in a cold climate?

5. Is the tank full to reduce the air space above the fuel?

[N1EYO]

Good thoughts, thanks

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by N1EYO

Closing up a can of paint last night, not really conscious of the mechanics of the task. I was irritated by the anticipated waste of paint that would go bad.

There is a simple trick to minimize lost paint - when you have the lid back on, turn the can upside down to seal any minute air gaps in the lid with the paint (these gaps will not normally let paint out but will let vapours escape). It really works a treat.
I have seen paint dry out completely in what I thought were sealed cans and I have seen the can tipping save virtually all the paint that was left.
For those that don't believe that a miniscule gap in the lid will make a difference ... don't forget that as the air temperature changes during the day, the vapours in the can expand and contract, in effect pumping solvent out of the can.

[FionaJC]

I turn every can and have done for about 15 years since I saw an old seat do it. I have also learned to read upside down without doing a handstand. Not a good look in a skirt, tricky to explain too, upside down, skirt round my head.' Oh Im just checking the paint'

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by N1EYO

Closing up a can of paint last night, not really conscious of the mechanics of the task. I was irritated by the anticipated waste of paint that would go bad.

I then recalled an advertisement for the stuff called “Bloxygen”.
(inert gas system to protect leftovers)
Apparently, this is nothing more than displacing the oxygen in contact with the surface of the paint with inert Argon gas.

More gears turning.

Are there any chemists out there that would enlighten me if displacing the air in contact with the fuel in a diesel tank, with an inert, heavier than air gas would be an additional measure besides removing moisture, in preventing the liquid gold from spoiling?

A 10# tank would last a long time.

That sounds feasible.

[Crusty Joker]

Jd1 is exactly right. Many years ago I did chemistries for a major chemical manufacturing branch of an oils company. I have luckily survived the negative exposures to this time. Keep the top of the can clean. Dip paint or pump paint from the can to assure there is no buildup of paint, but if you do spill, clean it right away. Keep the can covered, and attach a list of what you add to the paint to "condition" it. One of my jobs was to analyzed competitive ingredients in high end coatings. I was not what today would qualify as expert, but I was among the best technicians available at the time. I was kind of a "q" to the spies.
We were what the Japanese were accused of being after WWII. Copiers. Then we could boost performance on occasion. I am obsolete. Like old fashioned marine varnish or crazed French Glaze on fine pottery. Now I look for ways to avoid use of plastics and resins and all manner of things. Even wood. Except where boats are concerned. Boats are like good women and great mates. Hard to get along with, and impossible to have a quality life without them! Cheers to all. You teach me everything I am capable of learning. Is that a Yogi?

[Crusty Joker]

Fuel and water... the last part of the manufacturing of diesel is its water wash... yes. I let the cat out of the bag. I lean more toward dogs. Diesel fuel is about 1% water. It picks up additional water by way of vapor exchange with the outside and condensation in the fuel tank. In my days working on, commissioning, and restoring vessels I installed many water separation and circulation systems that essentially scrubbed and dried the fuel as engine(s) ran or by use of electric fuel pumps. Some engines pump an amazing amount of fuel, warming it, and allowing transfer control to multiple tanks. This becomes a useful way to ballast the vessel and improve fuel. I used staged and various kinds of filters to really do a wonderful job of cleaning fuel. When tanks and vessels are left without responsible maintenance persons they tend to become very neglected. Inside and out. A working boat has much more value if properly maintained. If you have trouble you can't solve even with good advice, hire it done for you by a good local mechanic and then learn that you are not caring for the boat. Change.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by N1EYO

Closing up a can of paint last night, not really conscious of the mechanics of the task. I was irritated by the anticipated waste of paint that would go bad.

I then recalled an advertisement for the stuff called “Bloxygen”.
(inert gas system to protect leftovers)
Apparently, this is nothing more than displacing the oxygen in contact with the surface of the paint with inert Argon gas.

More gears turning.

Are there any chemists out there that would enlighten me if displacing the air in contact with the fuel in a diesel tank, with an inert, heavier than air gas would be an additional measure besides removing moisture, in preventing the liquid gold from spoiling?

A 10# tank would last a long time.

Diesel doesn't spoil if you add just a little fuel conditioner to keep the bugs from multiplying. You'll find people have used diesel that is many years old, just stored in normal boat tanks.

[thinwater]

How keep diesel? The military and emergency generator folks have studied this.

• Make sure you have no deck leaks. This is the leading source of water. Good o-ring with grease on it.
• Sump the tank with an oil change pump if there is no drain.
• Silica gel vent filter. Not only will it keep humidity out, it also reduces convention and will slowly dry the fuel (yes, I've measure this is small tanks).

• Biocide (not just conditioner--not all contain biocide). Biobor JF is good, as is Valvtect Plus 6.
• Anti-corrosion additive. Plus 6 is good, as is StarTron. The risk here is that even low PPM levels of zinc or copper in the oil accelerate corrosion. If the copper and brass parts are taking on a pattena, it's too much.

[N1EYO]

Originally Posted by thinwater

How keep diesel? The military and emergency generator folks have studied this.

• Make sure you have no deck leaks. This is the leading source of water. Good o-ring with grease on it.
• Sump the tank with an oil change pump if there is no drain.
• Silica gel vent filter. Not only will it keep humidity out, it also reduces convention and will slowly dry the fuel (yes, I've measure this is small tanks).

• Biocide (not just conditioner--not all contain biocide). Biobor JF is good, as is Valvtect Plus 6.
• Anti-corrosion additive. Plus 6 is good, as is StarTron. The risk here is that even low PPM levels of zinc or copper in the oil accelerate corrosion. If the copper and brass parts are taking on a pattena, it's too much.

Now we’re getting somewhere. So, by scrubbing (polishing) the fuel on a regular time schedule and adding a biocide there would be no need to float a layer of inert gas. Nice.
See what happens when I have too much time to think - without permission.