Docking long keel/heavy displacement yachts.

[coopec43]

Yesterday we took Helen out for the first time on our own. Everything went well but we had problems maneuvering into the pen. We tried to dock bow first but Helen decided she wanted to dock stern first. (Fortunately there was no audience)

I know long keel/heavy displacement yachts are difficult to dock so I will follow this thread later this evening.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...at-124600.html

I priced a bow thruster but at $2000+ it is out of the question. I am now looking at a DIY detachable bow thruster maybe using a trawler motor (or surfboard motor) Has anyone already constructed their own?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxJmX3YWOu8

[hpeer]

When we bought our 44’ full keel steel cutter I asked the first owner “If you had one piece of advice what would it be?”

“Stay out of marinas.”

It has prove to he sage advice.

[Benz]

It'll get better with practice. Trust me: it's all about knowing what to do, and just how much of it to do, and when to do it.
And learning to use spring lines.
Just keep practising.

[coopec43]

I was a bit embarrassed when I looked at all the other boats and they were docked bow first. I mentioned that to my Son and he pointed across to Marina Finger C where almost all the boats had docked stern first

If everyone does their own thing should I dock bow first or stern first? Which would be easier? (or both difficult?)

[mvweebles]

Absent a bow thruster, your only turning tools are rudder, prop wash directed over rudder, and prop walk. Heavy displacement sailboats often have small engines with small props. You must learn to manage the tools you have, though there is no magic button. Some boats are just hard to dock. I used to teach close quarter maneuvering and recall a fellow with a 32 foot Dreadnaught equipped with a puny Lister engine thet was no match for the long bow sprit.

I chuckled at Hpeer's "stay out of marinas" comment. Not all problems are solvable, but understanding the tools you have can certainly make a situation as good as possible.

Docking bow first will be easier. Backing a difficult to maneuver boat into a slip is extremely difficult.

Finally, I'll make the case for a bow thruster. Many people are dissuaded from using their boats due to knowing when they return in the afternoon, winds will complicate docking so they just don't go out. A bow thruster can easily reduce or eliminate that angst so the boat gets used more. Given a boat in a slip often carries annual costs in excess of $15k, being able to use your boat 10% more is a decent return on a $5k cost. Plus it enhances resale value.

[HankOnthewater]

Generally is it much, much easier to dock bow in first. I do not know why others in your marina go stern first, but that might be for easy of access once the boat has docked.

Like Benz said, use a spring line, it is easy as pie, and it does not matter if you have a long keel or not. Just getting the length of that line right and the right cleat on the dock, and...... have some fenders in the right place.
My previous boat had a long keel, and I could dock that single handedly with a springline, and 2 fenders.

I am sure that are good you-tube videos on this, let me check....
here are some links:
https://www.skippertips.com/public/1689.cfm
https://boatingfreedom.com/using-spr...ok-like-a-pro/
https://www.morganscloud.com/2017/04...n-alternative/
Hmm, in the above link, the "balance point" is a bit overrated, and most boats can be docked with a spring from a midship cleat. Even using a bow cleat can work. Just make sure you add at least 2 fenders.

[Kettlewell]

I'll agree that usually docking bow first is much easier on a heavy boat, but I bet what you are finding is when you put the boat into reverse the stern is being pulled hard one way or the other. On my boat the stern kicks over to starboard when I put her into reverse to slow up. I try to compensate for that "prop walk" by angling the boat in with the stern further out from where I want it to end up once I apply the reverse. One way to avoid prop walk is to approach very slowly so less reverse thrust is needed, and a heavy boat will coast a long way.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Yesterday we took Helen out for the first time on our own. Everything went well but we had problems maneuvering into the pen. We tried to dock bow first but Helen decided she wanted to dock stern first. (Fortunately there was no audience)

I know long keel/heavy displacement yachts are difficult to dock so I will follow this thread later this evening.

I priced a bow thruster but at $2000+ it is out of the question. I am now looking at a DIY detachable bow thruster maybe using a trawler motor (or surfboard motor) Has anyone already constructed their own?

Bow first is usually easier. Then again, getting on and off the bow of some boats is either a PITA or just not possible at all.

And sometimes, docking direction is a matter of prevailing wind and/or currents, prop walk, etc... and folks on that other dock may have slightly different conditions from your dock.

Prop walk can be your friend; work out how to use it to your advantage. Sometimes that may influence your choice of bow in or stern in.

Spring lines are your friend. Especially if you have at least one crew to work that better. And at your home dock at least, pre-set lines can make it even easier.

And then practice is a big part of it. Recommendation: every time you return to your marina, dock 5 times. Assess what went good/bad each time, do it over again. Your skill can usually override long keel/heavy displacement.

If you decide you need a thruster, a real one will usually serve you better than some kind of rinky-dink contraption. This is one where it's usually better to bite the bullet and pay the freight.

-Chris

[Fore and Aft]

Coopec 43 one of my clients with a full length keel 36 footer had one of these electric outboards mounted on the transom. It worked really well kicking the transom in the direction needed.
Some full keel boats are just hard to manage in tight spaces. Recently on a full keel 32 footer we zig zagged down the marina until finally the bow swung towards open water. That owner had the yacht for 10 years and new all the tricks. But still she was hard to handle. The new owner had a mooring so the handling issue didn't matter.
Cheers

[Hudson Force]

I would suggest that you develop your docking skills away from the marina slips. You might best hone your skills by maneuvering next to a crab or lobster float. Begin by positioning your bow at a stop pointed at the float from the north, east, west and south. Then, try the same at amidship and astern at these same cardinal points. Your experiences will be tested at different wind and currents over time. There's no fun in repeating all these moves every time your out, but repeat a few on occasion.

Just like in the marina, the greatest challenge will be bringing your long keel boat to the float at the stern. The best skill to develop will be the ability to turn your vessel 360* in little more than your LOA. If your engine has the typical right hand prop rotation and prop wash turn to port in reverse; then, from a stationary position, turn your helm full to starboard and alternate your gearshift position from forward to reverse. At each position "goose" the throttle a bit and note the pivot of your vessel turning to starboard at the forward thrust and to port at the reverse thrust (turning clockwise from a view above).

If you were to use this turn after positioning your bow at the entrance to your slip; complete the 360* turn until your stern is a little less than aligned with your slip; then your prop wash with backing into your slip will complete your ideal alignment.

Your experience with the crab and lobster pots will give you the skills to moderate this maneuver with different wind and current conditions.

[coopec43]

Maybe if we got away from the half million dollar boats and practiced on the other side of the marina where the empty pens are would be the way to go?

[rslifkin]

Bow vs stern first depends on the slip you're in. Sometimes one will be clearly easier than the other and in some slips the boat may fit better facing one direction than the other. Bow first is often easier, but not always. And there's also the thought of which will be easier for departure. Wind direction may also be a factor in this choice depending on how badly the bow blows off at certain wind angles (as your ability to fight that in very close quarters will be limited without a bow thruster). If the wind is at an angle to the slip it'll likely be easier to face whichever direction keeps the wind aft of the beam.

With some practice, you'll start to find the things your boat doesn't want to do. Then you can plan to avoid those maneuvers.

Don't be afraid to experiment on a calm day and see what works and what doesn't. Go over to a more empty area with enough room to play around and just see what you can get the boat to do. With reverse, for example, some boats really want to be in neutral to have good steering, so you get it moving and then go to neutral. Others need to be sped up slowly as a big burst of throttle walks the stern so far sideways that you can't recover from it.

The heavy displacement is likely an advantage, as the boat will be less reactive to wind gusts, etc. and will have more momentum. So everything can be done a bit more slowly and methodically (which is good when needing to work around the long keel handling quirks).

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

I would suggest that you develop your docking skills away from the marina..............


Just like in the marina, the greatest challenge will be bringing your long keel boat to the float at the stern. The best skill to develop will be the ability to turn your vessel 360* in little more than your LOA. If your engine has the typical right hand prop rotation and prop wash turn to port in reverse; then, from a stationary position, turn your helm full to starboard and alternate your gearshift position from forward to reverse. At each position "goose" the throttle a bit and note the pivot of your vessel turning to starboard at the forward thrust and to port at the reverse thrust (turning clockwise from a view above).

If you were to use this turn after positioning your bow at the entrance to your slip; complete the 360* turn until your stern is a little less than aligned with your slip; then your prop wash with backing into your slip will complete your ideal alignment.

Your experience with the crab and lobster pots will give you the skills to moderate this maneuver with different wind and current conditions.

This is Helen in her pen with her bow half way across the floating marina finger. She sits alongside with two fenders. (I can only tie up on the Port side.)

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by coopec43

This is Helen in her pen with her bow half way across the floating marina finger. She sits alongside with two fenders. (I can only tie up on the Port side.)

The taper on that dock would have me inclined to come in bow first, as you'll be able to get further into the slip and not worry about sticking out too much.

[Kettlewell]

This is Helen in her pen with her bow half way across the floating marina finger. She sits alongside with two fenders. (I can only tie up on the Port side.)

That slip is a bit short for your boat. It does look designed to encourage bow-in docking, but your stem is awfully close to the dock and hopefully nobody will hurt themselves on your bow anchor. If you went stern in I think your bow would stick out into the fairway too much.