Docking long keel/heavy displacement yachts.

[hpeer]

Sten docking is to make boarding easier. Too bad I have a wind vane.

IN Puerto Del Rey, PR they insisted I come in stern first to the haul ramp. Concrete with no fenders. The wi d was howling about 20 right on the nose. I could come in and do a 180 and align the boat alright. But I could not back fast enough to pull her into the slip before the wind blew my now off. After numerous tries I ended up with some big gouges.

Never going back there. This was just one of many reasons.

[markxengineerin]

Notice how the docking videos are in dead calm/no current. This isn't an option a lot of times. I vote YES adding a bow thruster if you think you need one. I am also thinking about a cheap/retractable one, possibly something that can also be used as a hydrogenerator. Both devices would probably only be used a few times per year, but when you need 'em...

[Kettlewell]

But I could not back fast enough to pull her into the slip before the wind blew my now off. After numerous tries I ended up with some big gouges

When I had a 32-foot cat I was launched via a Travelift backwards into a narrow channel between full boat slips on either side with not enough room to turn around. The wind was howling down the channel so I had to back down a long ways--probably several hundred feet between the rows of boats, around a right angle corner, and then I just kept going out of the marina channel in reverse into the bay before I turned around. Luckily the cat would back straight into the wind pretty good once I got her going. A bit nerve wracking, and I was really glad I wasn't in a heavy full-keel mono. I would have gotten jammed in there sideways between various boats.

[leecea]

These guys teach back and fill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qOPM_SMJCc

Around 2:54 is where they start with a standing turn to get setup for backing into a slip. Later they show using a spring line.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by deblen

Suggest you learn to "back & fill"-preferably away from the public eye and other boats. A boat steers only by the stern(without bowthruster)

Definitely practice to understand art-of-the-possible. But not all boats respond to back-and-fill. Old school auxilliary preached 1-hp per 1-long ton of displacement. How maneuvaerable do you think a 15-hp diesel driving a 34k# long-keel boat with a 16-inch prop behind a 6-inch wide deadwood will be?

Not everything is possible or practical.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

According to the ad, that's an 18 lb thrust motor. Try pushing on your bow with 18 lb and see how it responds.

Yes I agree - I selected the wrong advt That would not have sufficient thrust but they do make more powerful units.

But their $350 Watersnake SLX 54/42 Electric Motor

Versatile 42-inch transom 12V electric motor ideal for trolling, saltwater/freshwater fishing

• Powerful 54-pound thrust ensures efficient performance

VETUS has a range 25kg- 285KG

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

I'm not imagining how a bow thruster like this could work on a vessel over about 25 feet. For something near 40 feet there would need to be a supported framework to extend the device to the water, some extension of the controls, an added crew member to operate it as well as some good communication with the helmsman....'best without the yelling.
!

I'm just exploring possibilities at this stage. Did you see the link to this video I posted earlier? (This guy sounds as though what he is doing) (What is necessary is all explained there and it would not be difficult)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxJmX3YWOu8

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Over the years I got comfortable with docking and exiting long keel boats, and frankly I am more comfortable with them than a fin keel. You get to know what the boat's reactions are and use them to your advantage. But, of course, there are some situations which are quite dicey, but most boats have those in some manner anyway.
One important thing is keep headway, then use reverse to stop and gun it doing so as necessary! Too many people are too slow and too cautious. Use prop walk to your advantage. It's like having an extra tool!
In tough situations, (current, wind, etc) think it through well first and have a plan B ahead also. In strong wind and current have a plan for which dock line to secure first!

I think you got it in one!

Overnight I have been thinking a lot about what we did wrong. I believe we came in far too slowly and we were dead in the water with no steering.

The pens have rubber buffers all around so it is not as if you penning the yacht in a rough concrete berth.

If we had approached the pen at 1 (or 2?) knots (fenders in position) then with about half a boat length to go gunned it in reverse I think it would have been good.

Next time out I think we'll have to go to the quiet part of the marina and get some practice.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Definitely practice to understand art-of-the-possible. But not all boats respond to back-and-fill. Old school auxilliary preached 1-hp per 1-long ton of displacement. How maneuvaerable do you think a 15-hp diesel driving a 34k# long-keel boat with a 16-inch prop behind a 6-inch wide deadwood will be?

Not everything is possible or practical.

Agreed not everything is possible.
For the vessel you describe above-it is underpowered & should have a tug (dinghy,marina tug,etc),if it cannot be maneuvered under it's own power.
My post applies to the 90%? of sailboats that can be controlled,with practice &/or training.
Cheers/Len

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Coopec 43 that electric outboard I showed you has its own remote to control it. It also comes with a bracket to mount it on the transom. When the owner backed out of the marina berth using the remote he pivoted the outboard in the right direction and gave it a squirt. Sure enough it pushed the transom in the right direction despite the boat wanting to go the opposite way.
The other way is to have the wife in the rubber dinghy and get her to push you around. We do that on my mates 50 foot full keel ketch. He's in a pile berth side on to the tide flow and backs in to the dock.
Kettlewell all our marina berths in Tin Can bay are about a metre shorter than the boat. It can be a real pia.
Cheers

I tell you what Fore and Aft, you tell my wife to get in the dinghy and push the yacht around and I'll go below and tidy things up

[rslifkin]

Learning how much speed is needed in various conditions takes a little practice. Too fast and things can get ugly quickly, too slow and wind/current effects can throw you off badly. So minimum speed goes up as conditions get more sporty. I like to think of it as "as slow as possible but as fast as necessary"

[Fore and Aft]

Coopec 43 my wife has been pushing me around for 29 years so boat or me doesn't really matter to her. I literally can go below and pack up while the Mrs and kids dock the boat.
An interesting experiment for you would be to see how quick you can pull up in reverse at various speeds. That way you know when entering the dock just how quickly you can stop.
Captain Ron demonstrates that very well.
Cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8alNxLjCBJc

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by Ryban

A lot of good advice given here, and you're not alone in your struggles. It took us a while to figure out how to best dock/undock our Westsail, and early on, every outing was very stressful as a result of some close calls we had in our first few attempts.

Here are my tips:

• If you have a big rudder hung aft of your pop, then short high power bursts with the rudder hard over one way or the other are extremeley effective at decreasing your turning radius without substantially increasing your forward momentum.
• Figure out which way your boat prop-walks in reverse, if you haven't already. A good way to check is to put the engine in reverse while you're tied up to the dock, and see which side of the stern more water/turbulence seems to be coming from. This should be the side of the boat that the wash is hitting your keel, and thus, the side the force will be pushing on your keel.
• Go slow and have a big stick ready.

For getting off our slip, we put the rudder hard over in the direction we want to go, and I walk the boat off the slip giving it it's initial turn. The only thing we have to watch for is our bow sprit hitting the finger pier. Usually half way out we put the boat in reverse briefly to increase our clearance and move things along.

Once we're clear of the finger, we put the rudder hard over the opposite direction, and give a short burst or two of power in forward, which swings the bow over faster. Once aligned with the channel, we just motor out.

Coming back is a little tricky at our slip since we're very close to a shoal, but we end up motoring past our slip, and doing a 360 using short power pulses in forward with the rudder hard over, and this gives us a decent turning radius. And at the end of the turn we're lined up at the right angle to get into our slip. This only works because of the unique shape of our channel, where it's a little wider on one side, and very narrow where our slip is. I don't think we could make a 360 turn this way in a normal marina environment.

When we've docked in normal marinas with equally space parallel docks, we stuck as close as possible to the opposite side coming in, and started our turn about 1.5 boat lengths away, but this will need to be practiced for your boat. That usually put us in the right spot. You can use short bursts in forward with the rudder hard over to help accelerate the turn if it's looking like you're not going to make it.

Practice out in the open by a channel marker. See if you an use combinations of prop walk in reverse, and rudder "thrust" in forward to get the boat to turn on a very tight radius.

That is very well written, Ryban. This is precisely how we do it. Short forward bursts for pivoting and moving forward. Short bursts in reverse to stop forward momentum

[sailingunity]

It's still nerve wracking every time but I manage to not hit anything with our semi-full keel medium displacement boat. You just have to keep in mind what the current and wind are doing to the boat, know what your prop walk will do. I can spin my boat on a dime and have impressed some powerboaters even. If possible, I try to dock to port because my prop walk is to starboard, I can turn to port and put it in reverse and get it to turn in a pretty tight circle especially if I alternate between forward and reverse.

Reversing - give it bursts of power then shift to neutral and use the rudder to steer.
The prop walk will almost always win at slower speeds and the boat will do what it wants to, the only way to win is to take the prop walk out of the picture.

Wind will tend to blow the bow down, so you can use that strategically too.

I remember at a marina we were passing through there was a fellow who just went up and down the fairways all day, when I asked the office about it, they said he was nervous about docking, so he just practiced over and over on calm days again until he got good at it.

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Maybe if we got away from the half million dollar boats and practiced on the other side of the marina where the empty pens are would be the way to go?

Hi Coopec, yes practicing is important. Use a anchored buoy, fender or even a milk bottle with a weight. Practice how long it takes to stop you boat at different speeds.
Practising in the empty pens, that might work, but you will have the wind often on your bum, and therefore you will need more stopping power ie higher revs in reverse. When you practice in those empty pens, try to pick a finger jetty on the portside as well.

The aerial (google map?) pic in your post #11, is not quite right as the jetty in reality runs SE to NW, so the bow is facing SW. You could not have a better pen as the prevailing winds are SW in our part of the world.
Here is the marina again, with north up.

The pen is also good as you have room at the back of the pen to align yourself with the jetty.

Speed has been mentioned before. Generally the more wind there is, the faster one needs to go, and ..... the faster one needs to stop.

Propwalk has been mentioned. I thought all right turning props had propwalk to port. If that is the case, to have the jetty on your portside is also beneficial. Like in: go in straight, and 3-5 mt before hitting the jetty with your bow, put transmission into neutral, then astern, boat should stop, with the stern coming nicely alongside finger jetty. If the wind a blowing you onto the jetty, you can do that even without a springer. If the wind is blowing you away from the finger jetty, you need s springer.
Once the springer is tight, turn the rudder to starboard, leave or put transmission in forward gear, engine idling. This will keep your boat safe alongside and gives you all the time in the world to attach all the other ropes.... ooops, I am sure someone will correct me by saying "lines".