Double Jaw Standing Rigging Toggle Replacement

[Sailor_Grant]

I noticed that the standing rigging of my new boat was improperly set up with the clevis pin point loading the double jaw toggle.

What is the best source to replace this toggle?

Do I need to replace the bar that holds the toggle to the threads?

Should I replace the closed turnbuckles?

Do I need to worry about these Maganese Bronze chainplates? They seem to be strong and have strong mild steel backing plates.

(I know that the ring pin is improper, and I will replace with split pins)

[DougR]

Difficult to see well, but maybe you just need the correct size pin so the toggle isn’t point loaded.

How does the pin fit the chain plate hole?

[Sailor_Grant]

It fits the chainplate correctly, however, not the toggle. So thinking about buying new T Bolt with toggle to have proper size pin.

Then thinking that if I am already replacing that should I just get open turnbuckles - I don't like not seeing what is going on in the turnbuckles.

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Grant

I noticed that the standing rigging of my new boat was improperly set up with the clevis pin point loading the double jaw toggle.

What is the best source to replace this toggle?

Do I need to replace the bar that holds the toggle to the threads?

Should I replace the closed turnbuckles?

Do I need to worry about these Maganese Bronze chainplates? They seem to be strong and have strong mild steel backing plates.

(I know that the ring pin is improper, and I will replace with split pins)

1. Can you explain what “Clevis pin improperly point loading the double jaw toggle” means?

2. https://www.csjohnson.com/

3. No, it is integral.

4. Yes, in my opinion closed turnbuckles can hide internal flaws from easy scrutiny.

5. In my opinion those chain plates are an asset, not a liability. Inspect the backing plates annually. Replace with aluminum or bronze when required.

You can access an owners manual here to discover precisely how your boat was built and equipped.
CDSOA, Inc. -- Groups & Publications

[Sailor_Grant]

The clevis pin is too small for the toggle. So it is point loading it and the toggle is starting to become deformed.

And great to know about the chainplates, thank you.

[sva3]

Why is the ring pin improper?

[Sailor_Grant]

Cotter pins (split pins), are much more secure and safe for standing rigging.

This has been discussed in forum before:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ngs-21280.html

[roverhi]

Looks like there is enough meat in the chainplates to drill them out for the proper sized turnbuckle pins. Might get a machinist to advise whether that's possible. The SS strap toggles are a failure point for these turnbuckles because of crevice corrosion where they wrap around the bar at the end of the screw. Need to keep a close eye on this with these turnbuckles.

[zstine]

I don't think most of the replies have seen the issue. The problem is that the hole in the chainplate is a size smaller than the hole in the toggle/turnbuckle. The PO has installed a clevis pin to fit the smaller hole in the chainplate leaving a loose fit in the toggle


Two options. If the chainplate has enough material around the hole, you can drill it out to the larger size. I would want close to 1 hole diameter left on either side of the hole and I'm aware of several people who have done this without issue. ( Delos from youtube being one)

The second option is to purchase new toggle ends for the turrnbuckles with the smaller hole to match the chainplate. If they don't sell it, that means the pin is too small for the loads the rig is designed to carry.

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Looks like there is enough meat in the chainplates to drill them out for the proper sized turnbuckle pins. Might get a machinist to advise whether that's possible. The SS strap toggles are a failure point for these turnbuckles because of crevice corrosion where they wrap around the bar at the end of the screw. Need to keep a close eye on this with these turnbuckles.

Do not drill the chain plates. I can Guarantee that the person who installed the chain plates put more thought into that then the person who replaced the toggle.

Don’t drill the chain plates. If you’re going to go to the trouble of fixing the problem and you want to be lazy or need to go cheap then simply replace the toggle with the correct size pin hole.

Don’t drill the chain plates. There is not a good argument to remove strength from your chain plates.

Even this signals to replace then toggle, “The SS strap toggles are a failure point for these turnbuckles because of crevice corrosion where they wrap around the bar at the end of the screw”

Don’t drill the chain plate.

[JC Reefer]

Call my buddies at Sailing Services and they’ll help you get the right size toggle.

[Cheechako]

Those are cheap turnbuckles, buy new bronze ones to fit?
or
Ream out the chainplate, it doesn't look like much is needed. There appears to be plenty of meat on it.

[Boatguy30]

You need the toggle, turnbuckles, wire, mast thru bolts, padeye machine screws, etc. Possibly mast tangs. Boat is what 40 years old?

[Sailor_Grant]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

You need the toggle, turnbuckles, wire, mast thru bolts, padeye machine screws, etc. Possibly mast tangs. Boat is what 40 years old?

I do not think the standing rigging is original, I have heard of some standing rigging lasting 20+ years but it would certainly not look this good after 43 years.

The wire looks good, no strand breaks, bumps or irregularities.

Chainplates and backing plates look strong, I was considering removing them to check the through bolts, but they look pretty recent. May do it as a precaution.

Toggles that connect to the chainplate are worn on the upper shrouds because of improperly sized toggles deforming under the point loading of the clevis pin.

I want to replace turnbuckles because they are closed and I do not know what they look like on the inside.

I plan to replace the standing rigging next year, but do not have the money to do it now. I figure that replacing the turbuckles and making sure rigging is done correctly this year while checking for major errors would be good enough.

In a Cape Dory ad they lifted the entire boat by the two upper shroud chainplates, so not too worried about their strength.

What are padeye machine screws?

[Sailor_Grant]

I do not want to ream out these chainplates, they are amazing manganese bronze and are certainly designed properly. Better to replace the T bolts and toggle I figure.