Flamable Foam

[Charlie]

While researching foam for new cushion I came across a website http://www.rochfordsupply.com/produc..._ProdID_E_3199 that had lots of info on foam. There is a warning on the website that states:

WARNING: URETHANE FOAM IS FLAMMABLE!
Do not expose urethane foam to open flames, or any other direct or indirect high temperature ignition sources, such as burning operations, welding, burning cigarettes, space heaters, or naked lights. Once ignited, urethane foam will burn rapidly, releasing great heat and consuming oxygen at a high rate. In any enclosed space the resulting deficiency of oxygen will present a danger of suffocation to the occupants. Hazardous gases released by the burning foam can be incapacitating or fatal to human being if inhaled in sufficient quantities. No one component by itself passes CAL 133.

Do people use this on boats? The foam is to be used in the qtr berth which is next to the engine room.

What other type of foam is available that won't suck the oxygen out of the boat if it catches on fire?

[Benny]

Try this link - he's a dealer of 'fiber foam' - I don't know it's properties but it sounds like a good product for the marine environment

eBay: Marine boat outdoor furniture cushion fiber foam 4" (item 130077218203 end time Apr-07-07 08:17:42 PDT)

[ssullivan]

Then again, just about everything in your boat will do the same thing:

Plastics, wood (to a lesser extent), computers and electronics, etc...

All of that stuff releases smoke that can kill you quickly in a closed up boat. They do make insulations that are capable of withstanding high temeratures and fires, such as the kind you find lining your engine room. You could always use that if you are worried.

[Charlie]

Yeah I think I have some of the old insulation from the engine room. I'll just have my daughter sleep on that LOL

It is just such a severe warning thought I would ask before I purchased.

[Benny]

Speaking of foam and it's flamability, I went to the boat today and discovered that a diesel fuel spill from a 45 gallon drum which was half full of water had occured beside my boat due to the water freezing over the winter, expanding and forcing the diesel out the top spigot and pooled in a low spot under my boat.

The interior of the boat now smells like diesel as do the cushions - I thought of dry cleaning the covers but how does one get rid of the smell from the foam?

[Alan Wheeler]

Flame does a good job at getting rid of the Diesel, but you still have to dry clean to get rid of the soot afterwards.
Sorry Benny, but Sadly, there is nothing you can do with the foam except get rid of it. It is a fire hazard and you will never get the Diesel compleatly out of it.

Charlie, the using up of all the oxygen is actualy the least of your worries. The thick chocking carbon black smoke will suffocate you in seconds. It fills your lungs and you simply can not breath. Sadly, it is the No.1 reason why most people die in fires. Few actually die from the flames themselves. When I say sadly, it is the fact that if they did not suffocate, they most likely would have been able to get out before flames actually reached them.

[Benny]

Eureka! Found a product called PureAyre which gaurantees elimination of all marine ordors including diesel, head, bilge, fish, etc. See this link for info. If anyone has already tried this product, please let me know the results.

PureAyre Odor Eliminator - Marine

[hellosailor]

Benny-
Their MSDS actually says nothing about the ingredients beyond "
THIS PRODUCT IS A DILLUITION [sic] OF A CONCENTRATE THAT IS AN ORGANIC BASED ENZYME PRODUCT" which says, to me, that this is just "Marine Grade" Febreeze. Available for what, about $3/bottle in your local supermarket or drugstore, and fairly good at doing the same job.

Charlie-
It is old news that upholstery foam is a fire hazard. Car seats, airline seats, home couches and mattresses, all the same problem. Which is why most of those have to be made from fire-resistant foam these days. A good idea, but the fire-retardant chemicals apparently are also carcinogens and cause genetic damage, and they migrate out of foams as an insidious dust.
Buy the flammable stuff, keep extinguishers on hand, and don't let anyone smoke in bed. Unless you're the beneficiary of their life insurance policy.<G>

[Benny]

Hellosailor - there is a comparison chart for this product versus febreeze and others on another part of that site. There must be something different in it to make these public comparisons and offer the guarantee. I have tried febreeze and it is a temporary solution. This product is supposed to eliminate odors permanantly as long as the source is corrected which when the marina moves the boat, it will be away from the diesel smell. In any event, I brought the cushions home and will buy some and give it a try on the foam. Hope it works and I will post the results.

[hellosailor]

Randy, I'm just a skeptic.

Consider: "This product is supposed to eliminate odors permanantly as long as the source is corrected " Well, if you correct the source, simple ventilation will remove the rest of any odor problem, nothing else needed.

I've found over the years that when folks publish a blank MSDS, it is because they don't want you to know that they really don't have any secret, they're inevitably selling something very common at a very high price. Like most of the miracle engine/fuel/oil treatments.<G>

Diesel stink *is* damned hard to get rid of, especially for those of us who can pick up a whiff of diesel or kerosene from a long way off. Good trick if it can really get that out of cushions, I'd either send them out for steaming at a carpet cleaners, or replace them. (If they're crumbly at all, I'd just replace them.)

Spilled some diesel on my kevlar gloves once, and after six washings with detergent it still took a week of sunlight and fresh air to break the rest down and get them "unstunk" again. I use kevlar instead of leather sailing gloves.

[Benny]

Ya I hear ya - the cushions are stinking up my sunroom right now - I saw on the web others have used simple green and fast orange with good results - they are cheap and readily available so I will probably give them a try first - in the bathtub for the foam and put outside to dry. The foam is all brand new last year so I want to save it if possible.

Thanks for your input, Randy

[Alan Wheeler]

Trust me, if it has soaked into the foam, you won't get it out. Diesel is oil. It will not evaporate away. You can can never totally remove it. You may do a good job, but it will continue to stain the covers over time as the oil seeps back through.
If you really want to try, I suggest you start with good water based detergent type degreasers. Don't use the solvent based ones, as they only. And then you need to get the foam into a big tub and wash the heck out of it, rinse and repeat as many times as needed. Trying to hide the odor simply will not work.

[Benny]

Wheels - there was no actual diesel which came in contact with the boat - it was a spill on the ground which pooled under the boat and the smell got into the interior through vents etc. This is what is making the cushions smell. I know it is probably diesel molecules and the cushions have absorbed some but I would think this would be easier to clean than actual diesel fuel coming in contact with the cushions. Testamonials on the web have indicated the Simple Green and Fast Orange have been effective against actual diesel fuel in clothing etc. so I'm hoping that there will be no problem to remove the smell from the cushions. I'll post the results.

[hellosailor]

Tried the Simple Green, tried an "orange" cleaner, and did multiple washes with Liquid Tide, which is good enough to remove cosmoline, the king of all greases, in one shot.

Still took a week in the sun. If all else fails, use the carpet cleaning shop, they actually inject hot detergent/steam *through* the cushion and that will take out whatever is soluble in it.

I'd never badmouth a diesel engine, but somehow, I just never will get to loving diesel.<G>

[Benny]

OK - If all else fails hopefully time outside in the sun and breeze will do the trick which brings up another thought - we all have some odors from time to time on our boats and there are always the smells coming from the engine room that you just can't get rid of so what does everyone do - put up with the odors or install agressive ventilation. Every boat has that 'boat smell' which is a combination of many odors and I'm sure it gets into the cushions, pillows, sleeping bags, sheets etc. We are particularly suseptable, because I quit smoking about a year and a half ago and every smell out there seems to be magnified and some irritate my nose and throat and the Admiral is allergic to fragrances so it is difficult to use an air freshner in a small space like a boat without her reacting to it.

Any thoughts on a solution out there to boat odors - maybe this should be a new thread.

Thanks, Randy