Forward Hatch - what? How to repair?

[Uncle Bob]

As others have said, the hatch will come apart, the fasteners most likely are under the glued in rubber gasket. If going to the trouble of meticulously cleaning both sides of the glass at the seal and then attempting to reseal with a sealant applied to that edge it will be a very small thin seal with an expedly short lifespan. I would persevere, separate the halves clean and reseal using a good glazing silicone, they now use silicones to install glass to skyscrapers. Having gone to the trouble of resealing the glass a replacement rubber gasket should be done anyway. Rubber gasket material is available in a myriad of shapes/sections in whatever lengths you want, just may take a little searching.

[gulfislandfred]

I'm beginning to think the frame is 'alloy' , which I think would be aluminum alloy?

And it's heavy because the glass lens is heavy.

It doesn't have any Houdini markings. It looks more like a Houdini than other hatches I've seen so far.


I expect that I'll end up taking the hatch apart to reseal at some point, but the boat has years of maintenance catch up to deal with. Good weather has arrived, and it won't last forever There's a lot sand and scrape to do on the outside wood plus a bit of repair. I'm still sorting electronics, espar heeater, running lights, etc.

For now, I'll try to clean the seam and caulk where the glass and frame come together, and make a cloth cover for the fall and winter. Maybe I'll get lucky, and get a few years out of the quick fix.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by gulfislandfred

I'm beginning to think the frame is 'alloy' , which I think would be aluminum alloy?

And it's heavy because the glass lens is heavy.

It doesn't have any Houdini markings. It looks more like a Houdini than other hatches I've seen so far.


, but the boat has years of maintenance catch up to deal with. Good weather has arrived, and it won't last forever There's a lot sand and scrape to do on the outside wood plus a bit of repair. I'm still sorting electronics, espar heeater, running lights, etc.

For now, I'll try to clean the seam and caulk where the glass and frame come together, and make a cloth cover for the fall and winter. Maybe I'll get lucky, and get a few years out of the quick fix.

I've just got my Houdini hatch out of the back shed. (I know it is a Houdini because it says so on a stick on label)

Looking at it I now think it is Aluminum alloy too.

"I expect that I'll end up taking the hatch apart to reseal at some point"


If it is a Houdini hatch (the same as mine) I wish you luck as I don't think it will come apart. (But may be some of the experts posting here can explain how yours can be dismantled. )

I've just washed all the dust off and inspected the design and I don't think it comes apart. It is late at night but I'll see if I can get a photo, if not I will take a photo in the morning.

[gulfislandfred]

Thanks for the photos,
Some sources, here, and online elsewhere, say these hatches can be dismantled, some say the metal is bent around the glass, when manufactured, and they can't be taken apart.


I received an email today, from the builder of the Fisher, Northshore Marine, that says this hatch cannot be dismantled.



There seem to be several hatches that look similar, made by different makers, or the same makers at different times.

The ones with a glass lens are most similar to mine, but still have different locking systems, and may or may not be able to be taken apart.

The different expansion rates of the metal and glass seem to make leaking likely.
My next step will be to see what's available to fill the small seam between the glass and frame, and maybe make an external bead in the 'corner' of the glass and metal.

If I can find something that will work for a season, and shows when it lets go, that might work.
Pliobond rubber cement has worked for me in the past. That might be my first try. Or perhaps Permatex aviation gasket compound. I'm thinking something that will flow into the crack, if I take off the hatch cover, and lean it on something, so the seam is pointing up, and a liquid will flow in, and stay until set. Then apply the seam compound with a tiny brush.


And a cloth cover for winter storms.

[rognvald]

" I'm thinking something that will flow into the crack, " Gulf

Hi, G,
Try Boat Life liquid caulk. I've used it for years. It's a great product and will seal micro openings. Be certain to clean hatch/gaskets thoroughly before applying as I described in a previous post.
Good luck!
Rognvald

[gulfislandfred]

Thanks!
I'm familiar with regular Boat life for a tube gun. Not that hard to clean the seam.


I make mini reefing irons out of old coat hangers, nice, soft steel. Hammers out to the width you need, up to maybe 1/4 inch, bend a circle in the pulling end, to put your finger through. Sharpen, make the end hook over, make a new one, shape and adjust as needed. One fairly heavy coat hanger makes 10 tools.. Lineman pliers, ball pein hammer, and an steel spot to hammer on. There's usually a head of a big carriage bolt, or a metal cleat, on any dock. Big fun!

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by gulfislandfred

Thanks!
I'm familiar with regular Boat life for a tube gun. Not that hard to clean the seam.


I make mini reefing irons out of old coat hangers, nice, soft steel. Hammers out to the width you need, up to maybe 1/4 inch, bend a circle in the pulling end, to put your finger through. Sharpen, make the end hook over, make a new one, shape and adjust as needed. One fairly heavy coat hanger makes 10 tools.. Lineman pliers, ball pein hammer, and an steel spot to hammer on. There's usually a head of a big carriage bolt, or a metal cleat, on any dock. Big fun!

Hi, G,
You can buy plastic syringes online that you can use for your repair with liquid caulk. It will allow you to fill all crevices(seen and unseen) which may be the culprit. Try to find ones that have the longer tip for better application. God forbid you'd take a caulk gun with liquid caulk to the project . . . it would be reminiscent of Noah's Flood. Good luck!
Rognvald

P.S. Don't forget the thorough cleaning with a toothbrush as described above and wipe any excess with a damp rag. R

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by rognvald

" I'm thinking something that will flow into the crack, " Gulf

Hi, G,
Try Boat Life liquid caulk. I've used it for years. It's a great product and will seal micro openings. Be certain to clean hatch/gaskets thoroughly before applying as I described in a previous post.
Good luck!
Rognvald

If it is a Houdini I doubt your "Boat Life liquid caulk" would work. The glass lens and sealing material is squeezed inside the aluminum frame. The sealing material is therefore well protected and not subject to UV degradation.

I think the Houdini hatch design is fundamentally flawed and therefore the leaks are more likely through the rubber seal. That is just not my observation but the observation of people experienced on these matters. The rubber seal is not protected from the elements or UV degradation. (See pictures above)

Houdini hatches had a bad name from day one.

[coopec43]

We don't know whether the hatch is a Houdini so this may be irrelevant.

LOL LOL, every time I hear things like this I laugh. Houdini hatches must be about the WORST hatches ever made. Take a new one and pour water on it, amazing - the hatch itself holds the water in a beautiful big pool. Now if that isn't bad design I don't know what is. Secondly, look at the seal, it holds water so if you open the hatch you not only get the water running off the glass where it pools, it collects around the edge and is just waiting to soak you if you dare to open it, but it will just annoy you anyway with its constant dripping.

I'd recommend getting your money back, if you can, and getting some other brand, we've fitted gebo and lewmar and they work. I'm not sure but if you can get a double glazed one that will prevent condensation forming.

Mark

https://forums.ybw.com/threads/houdini-hatches.229734/

[gulfislandfred]

Getting my money back?


This is a 1972 Fisher 30, and I'm pretty sure the hatch is original to the boat. How long is the warranty on a Houdini hatch? If it is a Houdini?



It has no makers markings. I have no intention of spending thousands of dollars on any hatch. That's for you guys with deep pockets.


The gasket above and below the glass lens have deteriorated. I can reef it out, and see whether I can seal the space, as discussed, with one of the compounds discussed above.
I'm beginning to think Pliobond rubber cement, or liquid lifecaulk may be plan A. Yes, with a syringe, or a tiny brush, like from a kids watercolour set.

Doesn't sound like anyone else here has used Pliobond?
In the 70s and 80s, guys with wooden fishboats would bring them from Alaska, down to Port Townsend, get the wood decks as dry as they could, then cover them with glass cloth set in Pliobond. It would stretch and flex with the wood. Didn't leak. If it got damaged, more Pliobond, with or without glass was easy to put on

I don't know if anyone else here has used it. One advantage is that it's easy to add a bit more Pliobond over the first coat. It sticks well, stays soft and stretchy, and comes off fairly easy if I want to try something else.
It might be good, with the understanding that it needs to be patched up or renewed once or twice a year. I saw some of those boats seven or eight years later, decks still good.



Plus, as I have said more than once now, a cloth cover that goes down the sides, past the bottom of the metal hatch.

[coopec43]

"Plus, as I have said more than once now, a cloth cover that goes down the sides, past the bottom of the metal hatch."


I made up fiberglass hatch covers because Lexan has a limited life (10 years?) When the yacht is not being used the covers go on so I don't have leaks and presumably I will get many years use.

[coopec43]

Here are my fiberglass hatch covers in place while Helen was being constructed. (Two over the main cabin, one over the aft and fore cabin)

[gulfislandfred]

Great idea! I have some thin glass panel left over from a bathroom project. Bit of poxy and cloth on the corners. Make a box that fits over the hatch.

But now you have me thinking about plywood, or even real wood with cloth, set in paint, like an old wood boat hatch. Keep the paint up, and that will last 100 years.
It's the window that makes it complex.


After a glass of wine:
Make an acrylic or lexan hatch cover box. Lots of surplus turning up as covid barriers come down. Glue the corners with triangular inserts and silicone or other appropriate adhesive (plastic weld with heat?)
Take it off when I want to open the hatch.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by gulfislandfred

Getting my money back?


This is a 1972 Fisher 30, and I'm pretty sure the hatch is original to the boat. How long is the warranty on a Houdini hatch? If it is a Houdini?

Not sure whether you are serious or not? That comment regarding getting your money back was made 26 Feb 2010. The comment in a YBW thread was made by a person who was not impressed with Houdini hatches.

I can't find the warranty period for Houdini hatches but Lewmar warrants their hatches for a period of 3 years.

[gulfislandfred]

That was an attempt at humour on my part, in response to the suggestion that if it's a Houdini hatch, I should get my money back.




I seems, to me, that this thread has moved from gathering data, for which I am grateful, to entertainment, which is not a bad thing