Full Keel enhancement to slide over fishing nets

[Erik Latvian]

Hello brothers in arms, need your input to figure out this:
My Vagabond 31 has an ideal profile to slide effortlessly over floating fishing nets in case I didn`t notice one in the course



but still due to the small gap between keel and rudder hinged on it net ropes sometimes hook up the boat. In order to prevent any rope slipping in the gap kind of preventer-guide would be installed underneath as an extension of the keel. My idea is to make anything like this:



But I am concerned regarding following issues:
* in case of grounding on the hard seabed such extension may bend upwards and block the rudder. Accordingly it must be quite bulky and heavy-duty peace of iron to bear the weight of the boat.
* how to attach extension to the keel? welding? bolts? what about potential corrosion between metal surfaces?

Would potential benefits outweigh potential problems? Is it worth efforts in the end? any suggestions?

[a64pilot]

A thin piece of SS is all it would take, it’s actually often done, and done different ways.
Even a piece of Starboard or G10 would work well. Unlikely it will actually be put under any real stress and one way to deal with that is make it sacrificial, a piece of G10 or Starboard would just break off before it could jam a rudder.

A much larger gap, but Island Packets have what is called a “Lobster strap” between the rudder and the bottom of the keel, it’s sole purpose is to keep lobster pot lines etc from getting in. The Lobster strap is a SS channel about three ft long.
You can see it here, much bigger gap of course but same thing.
If your keel is iron, I’d be tempted to drill and tap for attachment.

[Mike OReilly]

I don't have any real experience to answer your questions, but I can affirm your general approach. My boat is very similar to yours (in regards to the rudder). But mine does have the overlap you are planning to construct. As such, I've never been snagged by a wayward line or net.

Addressing your concerns, instead of making the addition heavy-duty, could you not go the other way, and almost make it sacrificial? It wouldn't take much to prevent lines from sliding up, so why not make it so that under a hard grounding it just bent or broke off?

[Erik Latvian]

Shame on me! I had to figure this out myself!
Of course guys - sacrificial/brittle peace of plastic is the way to go.
Thanks friends very much indeed. You saved me a lot of efforts.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Eric.

Good choice.

Originally Posted by Erik Latvian

... Of course guys - sacrificial/brittle peace of plastic is the way to go...

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

... Addressing your concerns, instead of making the addition heavy-duty, could you not go the other way, and almost make it sacrificial? It wouldn't take much to prevent lines from sliding up, so why not make it so that under a hard grounding it just bent or broke off?

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I don't have any real experience to answer your questions, but I can affirm your general approach. My boat is very similar to yours (in regards to the rudder). But mine does have the overlap you are planning to construct. As such, I've never been snagged by a wayward line or net.

Addressing your concerns, instead of making the addition heavy-duty, could you not go the other way, and almost make it sacrificial? It wouldn't take much to prevent lines from sliding up, so why not make it so that under a hard grounding it just bent or broke off?

I echo Mike as I often do. Years ago I added s thin piece of plastic bridging the gap and have never caught a net in a 23 yr circumnavigation. The K. I.S.S. principle is alive and well. The plastic is still there 😊

Jim

[Dooglas]

I can see the value of a sacrificial piece to avoid lines jamming in the rudder area. This particular problem certainly comes up with crab and lobster pots. I am curious, however - what "fishing nets" are you planning to slide over? The only untended floating fishing nets around here are nylon monofilament gill nets. They will catch on anything and everything - fasteners, castings, rub rails, through hulls, transducers, etc. Best simply avoided.

[a64pilot]

I think he means so he can slide over whatever, certainly not intentionally.
I remember a couple of years ago there was a post where a Cat had hit some form of unlighted, I assume abandoned fish farm or attractor in Europe somewhere I think. I believe it was made from sections of large plastic pipe and they hit it at night, which anyone would as you couldn’t see the thing and it was unlighted.
Anyway I believe they lost one rudder, got one engine/saildrive nearly torn from the boat and obviously extensive damage, took on lots of water, and to add insult to injury, I believe they were trapped inside the thing having made it over half of it.
There were many posts about it and how well made the boat was to have sustained only that much damage etc. and how it didn’t sink.

At the time I remember thinking that I’m certain it would have sacred the poop out of me hitting something hard in the middle of the night, but felt certain that I would have gone right over the thing, or been deflected by it, but certainly wouldn’t have had anything torn off.
There is I think an advantage to having a design that will ground with little if any damage, and has no bits sticking down to catch on “things”

[deblen]

My Mascot 28 has "semi-baanced?" rudder design with a notch that was continually catching rope,trash,even floating mooring pendants.
This pic shows my cure that has worked perfectly for many years for me.
The rod is 5/8" SS welded to the existing SS gudgeon.


Your design looks like it will work perfectly. Make it strong to stand a good bump. I would drill & tap the lead & bolt a 316 SS bar on. / Len

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think he means so he can slide over whatever, certainly not intentionally.

Yes, I understood he was not intending to run down fishing gear. I was simply commenting I don't think any likely modifications would equip him to safely slip over monofilament gillnets without snagging the net. As far as "sliding over" the structures for salmon net pens, they have wooden or plastic walkways above the floats for the netting as well as storage lockers, hoists, feeders, etc. No one is going to safely "slide over" one in a boat, intentionally or unintentionally.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

Yes, I understood he was not intending to run down fishing gear. I was simply commenting I don't think any likely modifications would equip him to safely slip over monofilament gillnets without snagging the net. As far as "sliding over" the structures for salmon net pens, they have wooden or plastic walkways above the floats for the netting as well as storage lockers, hoists, feeders, etc. No one is going to safely "slide over" one in a boat, intentionally or unintentionally.

Lots of poorly marked fish nets on the east coast between NFLD. and the Bahamas.

[Erik Latvian]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

I can see the value of a sacrificial piece to avoid lines jamming in the rudder area. This particular problem certainly comes up with crab and lobster pots. I am curious, however - what "fishing nets" are you planning to slide over? The only untended floating fishing nets around here are nylon monofilament gill nets. They will catch on anything and everything - fasteners, castings, rub rails, through hulls, transducers, etc. Best simply avoided.

Sure, any nets should be avoided but here in Eastern Baltic sea coastal fishermen place their nets just everywhere. Often entrance of my home port seems like intentionally surrounded/blocked by those crazy guys leaving clear way just for big commercial ships. Any depth in the range of 3-8m is unofficially proclaimed as "their own" fishing area.
Although in a calm see and daylight those nets are well enough visible, often you discover them just in the last moment.
ok, this is not anything unique here in Baltics, fishermen-vs-sailors 'war' is a universal phenomena.

This is our local fish-killer legend, in cccp era even had a role in a movie about fishermen`s harsh life)).
As you see, these nets are rough and not made of monofilament....luckily.


They are so hungry for salmons coming into river/port that this summer even blocked my boat and placed net right in the narrow harbor across the river. Have you ever seen such a hunger and audacity?


They have a tons of this stuff [no, not a toilets, look to the left]. As you see strong ropes and anchors in the ends. If you go over such rope at 6kn full sails downwind and been caught at the rudder, result may be even lost or broken rudder regardless of the rigidity of full-keel design.


a lot of these guys arround...

[Mike Banks]

Yes it is definitely worth doing if you travel in south eastern Asian waters. As to HOW to do it, the best way is to make a removable deflector to slide the line over the gap between keel and rudder. One way of doing this is to use a plastic horn cleat and cut one side off and fair it smoothly so that the remaining horn covers the gap. One could make a permanent deflector if one never had to remove the rudder--but a removable deflector bolted to its own permanent base (bolted so it could be removed easily) set on the keel and faired smoothly, and could be taken off should work on the rudder be required.

[Don C L]

I have a similar keel but you have more angle on your rudder stock, and I thought I had a lot! I slide over everything so far but if it were me I too would be considering some kind of sacrificial plastic fairing. You boat does not rest it’s weight that far aft when hauled does it? Is that iron or lead we’re looking at in that keel? If the fairing piece is long enough I think, in the event it is damaged, it wouldn’t jam the stock there especially if it had small wings that came up on either side of the keel.

[Erik Latvian]

Originally Posted by Don C L

[..] Your boat does not rest it’s weight that far aft when hauled does it? Is that iron or lead we’re looking at in that keel? If the fairing piece is long enough I think, in the event it is damaged, it wouldn’t jam the stock there especially if it had small wings that came up on either side of the keel.

* Right, when placed on the hard boat tend to fall on its nose. So risk of braking off or deformation of that extension isn`t significant unless stuck on the hard ground.
* Keel is iron.
* Regarding shape of that protector-guide:
HDPE block melted over metal strips intended for attaching to the keel on both sides [kind of your 'wings'?].
time for dumpster-diving to collect enough HDPE canisters...

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