Ground Tackle Upgrade for 6 Ton 35' Rasmus... Generally Speaking

[SV Allie Rose]

I’ve heard from wise sailors that a good ground tackle system is like a life insurance policy. Allie Rose is a 1972 Hallberg Rassy Raasmus, likely weighing in six tons, I’ve already preemptively done some work to my system. I’ve used a galvanizing zinc-based paint on the current anchor chain to mark distances, and used interlux bilge paint to repaint the anchor locker itself. I also used ospho on the anchor (no paint thereafter) for whatever corrosion forestalling effect this may have (likely little to none since it was not followed up with paint - I don't like the look of painted anchors). I also put a gasket on the lid, to diminish any noise that could result from banging. Here’s where I’d like to go with this project, and the questions that I have.

I currently have three anchors on the boat. A claw anchor is my primary anchor, and also have a CQR and a Fortress anchor.

I’d like to replace the current chain and rode with new chain and rode. My thought is that 200’ of G4 HT Galvanized chain (⅜”) with 200’ of 8 plait nylon rhode spliced thereto is what I want. Here are my questions:

1) Is my proposed system adequate?
2)Where is the best supplier in terms of “bang for your dollar” to order a half spool of chain? Or suppliers that you may have gone through in the past that you've received good customer service from.
3) What do you use to mark distance on the chain itself? I’ve heard everything from paint to zip ties works, but didn’t know if there was a “gold standard” that is most preferred if I’m going to be spending an absorbent amount of money on "up-fitting" this system.
4) The current chain pipe is terribly oriented, and doesn’t work well to feed the chain back into the locker. A replacement chain pipe from lumar (their 8-13mm pipe) is $300 - money I’d really prefer not to spend. If I have to. What would the best orientation for it be? More importantly, does anyone have a manufacturer they have had experience with before for this part? I guess it's technically seated just fine for now, but chain just doesn't feed well into it.
5) I sanded down, and did one coat of interlux bilge paint to clean up the locker. If I'm going to be repainting my decks, is there any point to adding a second coat of bilge paint? Any reason why one would use kiwigrip or other nonskid paint in the locker itself? I presume not to both - but wanted to ask.

Additional Purchase I'm not sure that I need, but would love to know more about their necessity
1) Do I need to install a chain stopper, or the current paracord to eyelet system I have provide the adequate protection that I need from accidental anchor release?
2) I don’t have an anchor bridle. One purchased from mantus (⅝” rope, 28’ long) appears to be fairly common, and costs $200. Is this something I should/could make myself? Does anyone have a mantus bridle that they’ve seen last the test of time?
3) The other pieces that I believe I need to add to the system are a swivel (to connect the chain to the anchor), and an anchor hook (to attach to the chain from the bridle). Similarly, mantus appears to make very common stainless steel swivels and hooks as far as I’ve seen at my marina. Any experience with these products? Are they both necessary?
4) Lastly, is there any reason to ever have an after anchor mount and/or anchor roller? Has anyone ever routed chain into their aft cabin before, attached to anchor on a mount/roller that is permanently on the aft of the boat?

The long and the short of it is simple - I want to have this “life insurance”, without breaking the bank. If anyone is willing to provide input on the above referenced questions, it would be greatly appreciated! The more feedback you can provide in terms of priority of the aforementioned purchases, the better. I attached a top down photo of the anchor system as it currently is set up.

[Scubaseas]

Unless you change the gypsy you need to use chain that fits. Order a foot to 18" of chain and make sure it fits. If you change the chain you may have to change the gypsy. Check with the manufacturer but also physically check it with a length of chain. What chain do you have on there now? What make/model windlass?

Where are you? I have used Defender but they changed hands and their prices have been effected. ACCO and Pearless are good makers of chain. Do not go cheap here. Use a known manufacturer. This is not the place for cheap Chinesium chain.

3/8 G4 is pretty heavy and a bit overkill for a 6 ton boat unless you have massive windage. You 200' chain and 200' brait is fine.

Loose the CQR. Personally I'd loose the claw too. I like Sarca Excel and Spade. But that's just me. I like a oversize Fortress for mud and as a kedge.

Stern anchor? For the Bahamas yes. Nice to have as an emergency brake or a quick kedge. Keep it light though. I keep my smaller Fortress on the pushpit and 150' of brait and 12' of chain.

Yes you should have a chain stopper if it'll fit. Yes you can easily make a bridle. I like 1.5 length of boat for a bridle. You can either tie it to the rode with an rolling hitch or icicle hitch or buy a chain hook. You do NOT want the load to be on the windlass. Plus you want some stretch in the rode. I use paint and zip ties for markers. One coat of paint is probably enough in the locker.

You can maybe lead the rode further back by using a 2.5" or 3" PVC pipe using sweeps or bending the pipe with heat. I can't say without seeing the boat or at least pictures. My Tayana has two chain lockers. The aft one gets fed by about 4' of 2.5" PVC. Works fine. I have seen people put in the chain fall at the mast but it's a pain feeding the chain in. Makes the weight in the right place though.

You don't need a swivel. Unwind the chain every now and then, Practical Sailor just had an article on this. Your weak link will be the shackle. Use a Crosby G209. There's another manufacturer that makes a higher rated forged shackle but I don't recall the name. Make sure the pin goes through the chain, not the anchor.

Just my $.02. YMMV. Expect a LOT of heated opinions on this post. Good luck!

[SV Allie Rose]

One correction - fully loaded for cruising her weight is closer to 8.5-9 tons. Thanks for your thoughts. Looking forward to the debate. I'll post additional photos of the locker itself and the anchors presently on board this afternoon.

[Scubaseas]

The boat's location would be helpful for recommendations on chain. Shipping 200' of chain get expensive fast.

Looking on sailboatdata.com you might be able to route you chain drop further aft by using a plastic pipe. How do you feed your chain now and what do you have for rode and windlass? If you windlass can take 5/16HT that would be my choice but you need a gypsy that can run 5/16HT/G4/G43 chain. Maybe it does now. If you want lighter chain use G7/70 but it's hard to find a gypsy that will work. A lot of people do not like G7/70 saying it's brittle. You also can not regalvanize G7/70 as it ruins the strength. You can see or measure the stretch in G43 but G7 may break before there is noticeable stretching. Lighthouse Windlass told me never use G7/70. I run 3/8G43 ACCO and had to change the gypsy. I have a 38000lb 42' sailboat with a fair amount of windage. I use a 75# spade as my primary, FX45 as storm or kedge/mud and a FX35 as a stern anchor.
Both the spade and bigger Fortress are one to two sizes up from recommended.

https://www.uscargocontrol.com/blogs...d-limits-chain

[donradcliffe]

3/8 G4 chain would be overkill for a 9 ton boat. 5/15 G4 would be suitable for up to 15 tons. You are talking about 300 lbs of chain, but you didn't mention the weight of the anchors.

[SV Allie Rose]

Location - Charleston, SC
Planing on circumnavigating in 18 months time.
100% committed to extended Caribbean cruising, especially in and around Aruba and Bonaire, in June and July.
Hope to visit several dive spots while in those areas. Most have great moorings, but for overnight anchorages, don't know if there would ever be a need for a claw like anchor for reefs? Just another thought to throw in there.

I'll post more pictures this afternoon. Looking forward to further thoughts.

I'm a big fan of overkill when it comes to anchor and chain, so long as it doesn't cause the bow to bounce too much under sail.

[AiniA]

The length you need is related to where you will be anchoring, e.g. in the Bahamas 400' is ridiculous overkill while in a few places in the Pacific it may not be enough. We did a rtw (Bristol 45.5 at around 20 tons) with 200' + 200' and it was fine. We used standard 3/8" Acco chain and it was fine. You could go with this or 5/16" HT and be more than adequately prepared. Like another poster, it is odd that you did not mention a better anchor. I used a CQR and a Bruce for many years and they just do not compare with the new gen anchors. We used a Manson Supreme and it was great but I would not say it is any better than its competitors. For chain, we got a half barrel of 3/8" (much better price than per foot) and had it delivered free to a local West Marine. Excellent deal since shipping is pricey. For a snubber we used about 40 feet of 1/2" nylon with a quality chain hook/ My feeling is you want the snubber to stretch easily.

[SV Allie Rose]

Photos of current anchors onboard SV Allie Rose and of current chain. Found some mystery wires in there too while snapping the photos....

I believe the chain is 5/16" or 3/8" - obviously I need to figure that out....

Worth it to upgrade any of the three anchors? Am I ok with what I have? Further thoughts on 200' of G4 chain as the primary thing that I should be budgeting and purchasing?

[Scubaseas]

Bonaire is all marine park. There are very limited number of mooring balls in front of town that are first come first served and time limited to three months if I recall. Or into one of the marinas. You won't be anchoring in Bonaire.

Curaçao is more cruiser friendly than Aruba.

The CQR and the Claw would not be my choice for a bower or primary anchor. I'd keep the FX23 for a lunch hook or mud anchor in light winds. Get rid of the CQR, stow the claw midships as a back up. if I would go up a size on the Fortress as a kedge and for a storm anchor. See anchor reviews from SV Panope to choose an anchor.

No idea what size your chain is. If you are going to use 200' of 5/16 G4 that's 220 lbs in the bow. Keep one large, primary anchor on the bow. You need to secure your anchors better than they are now.

[SV Allie Rose]

Originally Posted by Scubaseas

Bonaire is all marine park. There are very limited number of mooring balls in front of town that are first come first served and time limited to three months if I recall. Or into one of the marinas. You won't be anchoring in Bonaire.

Curaçao is more cruiser friendly than Aruba.

The CQR and the Claw would not be my choice for a bower or primary anchor. I'd keep the FX23 for a lunch hook or mud anchor in light winds. Get rid of the CQR, stow the claw midships as a back up. if I would go up a size on the Fortress as a kedge and for a storm anchor. See anchor reviews from SV Panope to choose an anchor.

No idea what size your chain is. If you are going to use 200' of 5/16 G4 that's 220 lbs in the bow. Keep one large, primary anchor on the bow. You need to secure your anchors better than they are now.

Firstly - thank you very much for your reply.

Being a marine park, combined with my desire to be able to anchor over reefs for diving purposes where mooring balls may be occupied by commercial dive companies, is there ever a need for a reef anchor? I presume not, like I mentioned earlier, but want to double check.

I've had good success with the Claw in the muddy bottom waters here in Charleston. The CQR I've never used.

If I store the claw, where is the best place to store it? Move it over to where the CQR is on the port size? I have two bow rollers, so it makes sense to me to keep two up there unless the additional weight is going to make that much of an inpact?

If you would size up on the Fortress, to what size would you size up to? Would you make it the primary anchor? What you mean as a "kedge"?

What would you recommend for a storm anchor? Where and how would you store the storm anchor? I've seen many people have the 100lb collapsible ones that they store in their aft lockers?

And in terms of securing the anchors, how would you recommend I go about doing that? Is that what the purpose of the oxidized and seized port that is above the anchor locker itself is for? It's thru-deck fitting that I can't get open that appears to have an integrated chain stop? I don't anticipate that it would be used for securing the anchor, so wanting to see what it is you'd recommend for that purpose.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by SV Allie Rose

Firstly - thank you very much for your reply.

Being a marine park, combined with my desire to be able to anchor over reefs for diving purposes where mooring balls may be occupied by commercial dive companies, is there ever a need for a reef anchor? I presume not, like I mentioned earlier, but want to double check.

I've had good success with the Claw in the muddy bottom waters here in Charleston. The CQR I've never used.

If I store the claw, where is the best place to store it? Move it over to where the CQR is on the port size? I have two bow rollers, so it makes sense to me to keep two up there unless the additional weight is going to make that much of an inpact?

If you would size up on the Fortress, to what size would you size up to? Would you make it the primary anchor? What you mean as a "kedge"?

What would you recommend for a storm anchor? Where and how would you store the storm anchor? I've seen many people have the 100lb collapsible ones that they store in their aft lockers?

And in terms of securing the anchors, how would you recommend I go about doing that? Is that what the purpose of the oxidized and seized port that is above the anchor locker itself is for? It's thru-deck fitting that I can't get open that appears to have an integrated chain stop? I don't anticipate that it would be used for securing the anchor, so wanting to see what it is you'd recommend for that purpose.

You will not be able to tie up to any of the dive moorings. STINAPA the park police will lock it up before you fish your dive. Mooring balls are only by permit. Check with STINAPA. You also need a park permit for diving. Do not wear gloves, they will confiscate them. You might be able to use the mooring balls out on Klien Bonaire but again ask STINAPA. You will not need an anchor on Bonaire.



I would only keep one anchor on the bow as you just added 165 or more pounds up there with the extra chain. See SV Panope reviews.

For the third time I would put a Spade or an Sarca Excel as the primary, single anchor on the bow. I would get a FX35 as a storm and mud anchor. I would put the FX 23 on the pushpit and store the claw below. I have heard many stories of claws loosing it in mud and sand. You can try storing the FX on the bow or in the locker. I would keep two rodes and if needed to use two anchors I would use my bower/primary and the FX35 in a V pattern. Or just use the FX35 in soft mud using the mud palms using the second rode which would be 16' of 3/8 G4 chain and 300' of 3/4 brait. But that's just me. You do you.

A kedge is an anchor you row out then use to pull your boat off the sand bar you just hit. You use the secondary bow rode for this. You put the anchor, chain and rode in the dinghy take it out full length and drop the anchor then either tie it to the main halyard to lean the boat over and power off or try a direct pull with the windlass. ,

Please do not anchor in coral. You kill it and the holding is iffy. Anchor only on sand patches.

[Scubaseas]

I would use one large single bower or primary anchor. If I was choosing none of what you have would be it. I would use the largest Spade or Sarca Excel that fits. Some people like Mantis or Rocna. I do not like new generation roll bar anchors as they do not work great in kelp. As far as what anchor you keep I urge you to watch SV Panope who has a wonderful series on anchors. Or use whatever you want. Just don't anchor up wind of me in the Bahamas if you're going to use the CQR or the Claw.

As far as claws in mud...I had a 38' boat that I lent my 75# Lewmar Claw to. It dug in for three months. Good breeze and it dragged. This was in Texas thick, black sticky mud. If the Claw works for you, great.

This 75# anchor was the primary on the boat I bought the PO had it in the Bahamas and the anchor dragged three times on him. YMMV

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by SV Allie Rose

Firstly - thank you very much for your reply.

And in terms of securing the anchors, how would you recommend I go about doing that? Is that what the purpose of the oxidized and seized port that is above the anchor locker itself is for? It's thru-deck fitting that I can't get open that appears to have an integrated chain stop? I don't anticipate that it would be used for securing the anchor, so wanting to see what it is you'd recommend for that purpose.

Securing it depends on the anchor. Some will have a hole that you could match up to new holes you drilled in the anchor roller. or tie it off to a pad eye you installed. Or take all the anchors off for ocean passages. I don't see how they stay on as they are now.

The deck fitting is a hawse pipe and cap. It probably goes into an anchor locker up front in the bow. It looks like you have two anchor lockers. It is NOT a chain stop. It's just a pipe you can shove a rode down then cover. You would do well to seal it up with modeling clay if making ocean passages.

Again I would have two rodes up front. The chain on your primary anchor The other one would be short chain and long rope that you use in mud with the Fotress with the mud palms on it. I would also have the smaller Fortesss on the stern with about 16' of chain and 150' of brait. This would be a back up or stern anchor for Bahamian moor or as an emergency brake or if you want to tie up bow to a dock.

If you can fit one a chain stopper on the primary anchor rode would be good. Get a name brand one.

[SV Allie Rose]

The Sarca Excell, 30kg/66lb appropriate for the primary anchor for Allie Rose? Presuming a fully loaded weight of 18,000lbs?

If I'm spending all these boat bucks on a new primary anchor, is there a need for a hurricane/storm anchor? I've seen other sailors use things like three piece anchors that they store below deck, sometimes weighing in at around 100lbs. Not sure if that'd be necessary if I could just link the Excell to the claw?

What's the best thing to do with the CQR? Does it have any value? Probably just list it on Facebook Marketplace for something like $50-$100?

Sorry for all the questions. Your help is greatly appreciated!

Hawse pipe and cap go into the anchor locker - there's just one

Should I route the aft rode below deck into the aft cabin? And is it best to mount the fortress anchor to some kind of fluke mount? Or a pulpit/aft specific roller?

[Scubaseas]

I would put the biggest anchor that fits and is one or even two sizes up from "regular" recommendation. 30KG Excel would be fine if it fits.

I have no opinion on a 100# Luke or Herreshoff anchor and definitely have no opinion on tandem anchoring. If I were in a hurricane i would run out the FX and the Excel in a wide V on separate rodes, each well dug in and expecting the strongest wind to come from?? and set to that direction. There are lots of different tactics for hurricane anchoring. YMMV. The best plan for hurricanes is not to be there.

No idea what he market is for used CQRs

You have two hawse pipes, One stuck and one in the anchor locker cover.

The stern anchor can hang from the pushpit and if you don't have a locker use a bag or bucket for the rode. Or stash the whole thing below someplace. But it's nice to have at hand if doing the ICW or other tight places. Mine simply is wedged between the davits and the rail. Another way to do it is with a flat anchor line on a reel. I would not bother with a stern roller. YMMV

I have no problems answering questions but repeating myself seems unproductive.