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rustypirate · 30-10-2016, 19:32

So... you want to build a steel boat, do you?

This past summer I have been working on my new cockpit,

which is to say that I have mostly been building tools that I need to build the cockpit.

For those who have not been following along, and for those who have lost track, a LONG time ago I decided to change my center-cockpit Bruce Roberts Offshore 38 to an aft-cockpit. On the surface it was pretty straight forward, just cut out the old cockpit and weld in a new one.

The removal of the original cockpit went pretty smoothly:

Then came the design of the new one. I wanted to make some improvements to the design to make it safer, more comfortable and less likely to leak:

And building the frame:

In order to create the radius bends I wanted in the seats I had to make my own press-break that was capable of handling sheets up to 6 feet long. The cost of having a fabrication shop do the bending was just too much, so I got to work. The tool does a wonderful job, but MAN it takes up a lot of space in the shop:

I start with a plain sheet of steel. I opted for 16 gauge thickness to reduce weight and still maintain strength, I had originally planned on using 1/8th inch thick material but decided to use that for some bulkheads instead. I mark my pattern and cut the piece to size:

The first bend:

The second bend:

After some trimming the piece fits into the frame:

I messed up the first piece I bent, but was able to reclaim it for use as the rear seat back and radiuses at the floor of the cockpit as well:

As for the floor, I wanted to raise the Edson pedestal to a more comfortable height. I could have just installed a riser block at the base, but I find that these double the likelihood of leaks, so I made a steel riser and welded it to the floor plate. I also welded stand pipes for the guard to attach to. This reduces the number of holes in the floor and also lets me run wires for the pod mounted instruments that will be installed later. I can have up to 2" of standing water in the cockpit before any possibility of leakage:

Of course once I am exhausted from doing all the work each day, I still have to pack up all my tools and close up the workshop:

The plan for this winter is to weld the new mid-deck hatch where the old cockpit used to be and to get the new cockpit hole cut so that the new module can be lifted into place and secured to the deck.

Snowpetrel · 31-10-2016, 03:14

Great Work! I'd love to see some more pic's of your brake press and details of how you made it. I have a similar project comming up one day. Thanks for posting

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

rustypirate · 01-11-2016, 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Great Work! I'd love to see some more pic's of your brake press and details of how you made it. I have a similar project comming up one day. Thanks for posting

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

I will post some more detailed pics and drawings.

gjordan · 01-11-2016, 09:19

You do very nice work. I have 2 cents worth of advice which may be all it is worth. The photos make it appear like your seats are slanted a little outboard which makes for a more comfortable seating position, but means you have to put drains so that the water that collects can get drained into the foot well. Even if the seats are level, you will still get standing water which is not a good thing on a steel boat. I had a 37 foot steel boat for a while and the steel seat bottoms were slanted inboard by 15 or 20 degrees (maybe more) and a set of teak slats were what you actually sat on. They were attached but easily removed for touch up painting underneath. The sloping steel would run the water off without the need for scuppers or any kind of piping or additional holes in the metal. Just a few less holes to deal with and almost never sitting in a puddle. Just something to think about. Love your shop. ____Grant.

rustypirate · 01-11-2016, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjordan

You do very nice work. I have 2 cents worth of advice which may be all it is worth. The photos make it appear like your seats are slanted a little outboard which makes for a more comfortable seating position, but means you have to put drains so that the water that collects can get drained into the foot well. Even if the seats are level, you will still get standing water which is not a good thing on a steel boat. I had a 37 foot steel boat for a while and the steel seat bottoms were slanted inboard by 15 or 20 degrees (maybe more) and a set of teak slats were what you actually sat on. They were attached but easily removed for touch up painting underneath. The sloping steel would run the water off without the need for scuppers or any kind of piping or additional holes in the metal. Just a few less holes to deal with and almost never sitting in a puddle. Just something to think about. Love your shop. ____Grant.

Thanks Grant! I know about the pooling of water, and I plan to install small drains in the seats at the rear. The whole cockpit will have a slight tilt to the rear for drainage anyway. There will be two 2" drains in the floor and a 1" drain in the back corner of the seats on each side to allow for heeling. I am still trying to figure out if I can run the drains out through the hull above the waterline or if I have to install another sea cock.

As for the seats themselves I am looking at a product called seadek (SeaDek Marine Products - Swim Platform Pads), which is a UV resistant foam. It can be cut to size and shape and adhered directly to the surface. This will hopefully also protect me from sitting directly on a hot or cold steel seat.

Snowpetrel · 01-11-2016, 13:54

I ran the drains for my old roberts 34's cockpit out the sides above the waterline port and stb. I wouldn't run them out the stern as the sternwave will possibly back flood through the drains into the cockpit when moving fast.

I ran my seat drains straight aft and out the transom, just 25mm stainless steel tube welded in place.

This made handy rails through the lazarette to tie coils of ropes onto.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

gjordan · 01-11-2016, 17:20

I recently bought a Tartan 34 that has the cockpit drains running out the back , near the waterline. The cockpit sole runs forward so the drain lines from the front to the stern are rather long and not well supported, and there are no seacocks on them. I am not comfortable with the arrangement but I have not heard of any Tartans taking on water while on a run. With your drains at the back, and your thru hulls being welded, I would not worry much. With your drains at the rear of the sole I am not sure it would make any difference if they go out the back or straight down, since the quarter wave that is created on a run will sink the whole stern down anyway. At rest how far do you think the sole will be above the waterline? That will make the difference. Just more of my thoughts. ____Grant.

rustypirate · 01-11-2016, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Great Work! I'd love to see some more pic's of your brake press and details of how you made it. I have a similar project comming up one day. Thanks for posting

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

More on the break:
The original concept using thinner angles and an I-beam for the bottom support. I would up using a thicker material bought at a discount price which allowed me to eliminate the bottom I-beam:

So, 4X6X1/4 I-beam across the top, 3.5X2X1/4 channel for the side rails
and 3X3X1/2 angle for both the bottom supports and the blade (welded back to back) I added a 1-13/16 solid round bar to the blade to give me something close to the radius I wanted. Nearly all of the material was bought as scrap or "drop" stock at the steel supplier, so I settled for the sizes I could get cheap.

I added some scraps to the inside of the posts in order to keep the blade aligned and from twisting too much. I also welded brackets for springs to raise the blade back up and release the material:

Multiple bottle jacks provide cheap pressure that can be moved back and forth across the length of the bend, making it easier especially with thicker material.

The results speak for themselves, a nice radius bend that is controllable and repeatable. I also tested bending a 1/8" thick piece with the same results:

rustypirate · 01-11-2016, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjordan

I recently bought a Tartan 34 that has the cockpit drains running out the back , near the waterline. The cockpit sole runs forward so the drain lines from the front to the stern are rather long and not well supported, and there are no seacocks on them. I am not comfortable with the arrangement but I have not heard of any Tartans taking on water while on a run. With your drains at the back, and your thru hulls being welded, I would not worry much. With your drains at the rear of the sole I am not sure it would make any difference if they go out the back or straight down, since the quarter wave that is created on a run will sink the whole stern down anyway. At rest how far do you think the sole will be above the waterline? That will make the difference. Just more of my thoughts. ____Grant.

The design puts the cockpit sole at 30 inches below deck level. I cannot believe that this is much more than a couple of inches above waterline if that. After thinking on this today I may just slant the whole cockpit slightly forward and run the drains into the through-hull that is already in place for the head outlet. No point in installing more through-hulls if I don't have to.

Of course this may impact my fuel tank installation as I was going to attempt to put it below the cockpit toward the front.

rustypirate · 07-11-2016, 17:35

I have some more progress to report.

I put the final touches on the cockpit floor with the addition of two 2" drains welded in.

This makes the floor fabrication complete and it is ready to get welded into the frame.

Since I was working on the cockpit and steering pedestal stand anyway, I took the opportunity to have the pedestal itself restored. I stripped everything down and took the aluminum parts to my local powder-coater for finishing. As a side note, the old Edson pedestals were painted with polyurethane, but according to their website, the new units are all finished with powder coat, so that is the way I went. for a grand total of $110.00 he bead-blasted the old finish and corrosion off, primed and coated the pedestal and engine control fixture. They came back looking brand new. I re-installed the chain sprocket and engine control arms, then mocked up the pedestal, guard and compass on the new cockpit floor just to check for height and alignment.

The Navpod on the guard will eventually house the secondary speed and depth displays along with a VHF. I have a second pod to mount above it for the radar display, but I am contemplating leaving it off so that I can see where I am going...

Orion Jim · 07-11-2016, 18:57

Is your pedestal mounted with four 1/2-13 slotted flat head machine screws? I'm having a hard time locating some three inch long ones in 304 or 316 SS. I'd be interested in a source which doesn't require me to buy a box of them when I only need four.

rustypirate · 07-11-2016, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

Is your pedestal mounted with four 1/2-13 slotted flat head machine screws? I'm having a hard time locating some three inch long ones in 304 or 316 SS. I'd be interested in a source which doesn't require me to buy a box of them when I only need four.

Originally the pedestal was mounted with 1/2-13 ALUMINUM flat head machine screws (presumably to prevent corrosion between the aluminum base and the screws), but seeing as Edson has adopted stainless screws now as stock, I purchased 4-inch 304 stainless socket flat head machine screws as replacements. This will allow me to insert an Allen wrench in the top and tighten from below without needing someone to hold a screwdriver above.
I bought mine as a pack of 5 from Grainger.com.
Here is a link to the 3" ones:
https://www.grainger.com/product/GRA...AS01?$smthumb$

rustypirate · 08-11-2016, 21:57

Tonight's progress was to get the floor plate welded into the cockpit frame.
I had to flip the frame upside down in order to get access for the frames to weld onto.

Here it is all clamped up and ready to go:

Now that the floor is in I could flip the whole thing back over again to finish fitting and welding up the seats.

I took the opportunity to do one last mock-up with the pedestal just to see how it all fits:

Sometimes I almost look like I know what I am doing!