Help! Rotten mast step

[Mithril Bham]

Walk away.

[DreaminFred]

This (mast step, not wooden stringer/bulkhead) is a very common issue on older Pearson 365s. Search Pearson365.com forums to see how those owners deal with the issue. The general approach is to jack up the mast, cut off the corroded bottom of the mast to fresh metal, new aluminum (original was steel, thus the problem) keel step and set the mast back down.

Hope it's not too bad. Not rocket science but some work.

Fred

[daga]

I have just finished having repairs done on my boat, also caused by water down the inside of the mast, the groove and the mast boot. If you purchase the boat in question and repair the damage then make sure to address the cause of the leaks as well. In my case we ended up pulling the mast. The mast plug had been inserted but never sealed so we positioned and sealed it. The mast groove was simply fixed with sealant, and a thin smear of sealant around the inside of the mast boot fixed that leak.

My boat is aluminium, so no serious structural issues were in play, but the water caused plenty of damage to the wooden subfloor framing under the shower pan and galley, which needed some clever woodworking to repair.

Getting to the bottom of the problem and addressing all the issues required several experts' time and skills and thus cost a fair bit of money. I knew of the problem when I bought the boat and was aware of how much it would cost, more or less, so no surprises. Most anything can be repaired. But of course you must make sure you understand how much time, energy and cost is involved.

Oh, one more thing: when you replace the mast put a smear of lanolin around the mast where is fits the mast step. This will reduce or eliminate corrosion.

[wesley]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Humm, your surveyor is confident ?? your mast step is very similar to my last old CSY , a aluminium step bolted to longitudinal FG stringers cored with Douglas fir, mine are bone dry thx they are above the bilge sump and no rain leaks from the mast, just to let you know that mast compresión loads and rigging loads are punishing those rotten beams,easy to get in trouble if not fix it properly,, my 2 cents unstep the mast and see the real condition of the surrounding structure...

Thanks, Neil - I don't know if that's quite what's under this mast, but my fear is that this boat has the same design but the Doug Fir cores have rotted away, leaving a serious structural deficiency. That's part of why I was hoping to find anyone who knows how the Duncanson 35s were designed/built.

There's a couple in Florida who have extensive video documentation of repairing floors under their mast step, which were as in your CSY but had rotted due to rainwater infiltration from the mast. The repair is documented over several videos (it was a big project) but you can see them digging rotten wood out of the fiberglass sheathing here:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O_qkOabIAzs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

We had offered AU$37k for the boat, which was the high end of our budget after accounting for outfitting and cruising costs. The idea was that we were getting a solid and comfortable boat, rather than some others we've seen that are more affordable but make up the difference in sweat equity.

Now it looks like we'd have to start an open-ended renovation on day one with this Duncanson after all. Thus, we're probably going to withdraw our offer, unless we can negotiate a big price decrease to account for both doing the necessary work and for taking on the risk of uncovering even worse when we remove the cabin sole.

Finally, I failed to insert my video in an earlier post, but this time I will be sure to preview first:

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/205852824" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
<p><a href="https://vimeo.com/205852824">IMG_2794</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/buckyphilia">Wesley Brooks</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Sorry about the poor focus - iPhones don't like extreme closeups. There's clearly some corrosion of the mast where it sits on the steel step, but I consider that less worrisome because I can see it all clearly and it looks like at worst I'd have to lop off the bottom two inches of mast.

[wesley]

Originally Posted by mickelsen

I do enjoy seeing the value of this forum. You have some good perspectives which at this point would give you all you need. Neil Pride and Uncivilized have you lined out yet I would like to hear more of what it is that you are looking to buy and invest your sailing dreams in. To me everything about this is spooky and needs the recommendations followed which could cost a pretty penny while consuming a good bit of time and energy. I too and a surveyor and regret seeing a buyer get berried in something like this. Will you tell us what the asking price might me as well as how your new boat might be used. You MUST be in a position and willing to walk.
Do kindly keep us in the loop.
Cheers, Peter M.

Indeed. We are in our 30s and planning to take a few years off work to cruise around cheaply. We're Americans, working in Australia now but our contracts are up in August, so we will leave some time after that. I have some carpentry and boat building experience, but those were largely developed on plywood dinghies. A home we owned previously had a serious water infiltration problem that gave me months of anxiety as we worked out a fix - which turned out well - so I may have a bit of PTSD affecting me here.

We offered AU$37k which stretches our budget, thinking we were looking at a boat that would need minimal work in order to set out cruising. We are willing to take on projects, but we're not gluttons for punishment and we don't have a lot of money to pay to our local shipwrights. It's the unknown scope of work that really makes me nervous about this.

[knockabout]

lift the mast off /replace / repair all affected timber / depending on what type of wood fungus spores can spread and cause problems in other places / also can be harmful to humans / may have been caused by a piece of timber left in the rain some time before being used in the boat / the spores can stay dormant in heat or cold/ stand sawing and cutting then after being carefully encapsulated in expensive coatings the slightest bit of moisture (condensation) they resurrect and start breaking down timber / common name wooden boat pox / keep the area dry while effecting repairs the spores are commonly found in rain

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by wesley

Thanks, Neil - I don't know if that's quite what's under this mast, but my fear is that this boat has the same design but the Doug Fir cores have rotted away, leaving a serious structural deficiency. That's part of why I was hoping to find anyone who knows how the Duncanson 35s were designed/built.

There's a couple in Florida who have extensive video documentation of repairing floors under their mast step, which were as in your CSY but had rotted due to rainwater infiltration from the mast. The repair is documented over several videos (it was a big project) but you can see them digging rotten wood out of the fiberglass sheathing here:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O_qkOabIAzs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

We had offered AU$37k for the boat, which was the high end of our budget after accounting for outfitting and cruising costs. The idea was that we were getting a solid and comfortable boat, rather than some others we've seen that are more affordable but make up the difference in sweat equity.

Now it looks like we'd have to start an open-ended renovation on day one with this Duncanson after all. Thus, we're probably going to withdraw our offer, unless we can negotiate a big price decrease to account for both doing the necessary work and for taking on the risk of uncovering even worse when we remove the cabin sole.

Finally, I failed to insert my video in an earlier post, but this time I will be sure to preview first:

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/205852824" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
<p><a href="https://vimeo.com/205852824">IMG_2794</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/buckyphilia">Wesley Brooks</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Sorry about the poor focus - iPhones don't like extreme closeups. There's clearly some corrosion of the mast where it sits on the steel step, but I consider that less worrisome because I can see it all clearly and it looks like at worst I'd have to lop off the bottom two inches of mast.

Thank you for the video,more clear now, one thing i wonder is if the surveyor come from your side or bróker owner side.. obviously in a survey this mast step, partition dont pass the test.

Now if you can get a few thousands reduction in the final Price can be a deal,i dont know whats going on under the rest of the cabin sole, that rotten partition is not a big deal, the mast base looks corroded as well so in any case unstep the mast kill 2 birds at the same time , you should try to see if the step is throughbolted to the partition because my 2 cents wáter found their way by there.. See if you can get acces under the cabin sole , flashlight , small mirror and from there talk to the owner about a deal...Cheers.

[wesley]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Thank you for the video,more clear now, one thing i wonder is if the surveyor come from your side or bróker owner side.. obviously in a survey this mast step, partition dont pass the test.

Now if you can get a few thousands reduction in the final Price can be a deal,i dont know whats going on under the rest of the cabin sole, that rotten partition is not a big deal, the mast base looks corroded as well so in any case unstep the mast kill 2 birds at the same time , you should try to see if the step is throughbolted to the partition because my 2 cents wáter found their way by there.. See if you can get acces under the cabin sole , flashlight , small mirror and from there talk to the owner about a deal...Cheers.

Neil,
We found the inspector ourselves through the grapevine but I think he's pretty chummy with the broker, who might have recommended the same guy if we'd asked them instead.

I think you're right about water following a bolt hole into the wood of the partition, and starting the rot from there. It seems like the same could have happened again directly under the mast, too. Impossible to truly know with the mast in place.

I'm surprised that you think the partition itself is not a big deal. I thought it would be an important part of the bulkhead, but it sounds like you think it's just there to make the transition from floor level in the saloon to the lower floor of the head? If that's the only wood that needs repair and it's not structurally significant, how would you approach a fix? Cut the bulkhead (and fiberglass sheath) back flush with the hull and rebuild? Dig out the rotten wood from the sheath and pour in a resin to fill it?

We're still deliberating our decision, obviously, and your help so far has been invaluable. Thank you!
-W

[wsmac]

Hope this helps... your Vimeo video

[gulfstar37]

If I remember right there is a U tube blog named " have wind will travel"

[gulfstar37]

Sorry fat fingers hit send,

where they spent last summer repairing their mast step that had rotted wood from mast water leak. Looked pretty intensive and they ended up getting the yard pro's to complete the project because the more they dug into it a can of worms was found. They had really good short videos covering from start to finish doing the work including when the yard ended up taking over. May be worth a look at to see what you may be up to the challange.

[wsmac]

Originally Posted by gulfstar37

If I remember right there is a U tube blog named " have wind will travel"

.
This one?
.
https://youtu.be/uYafJ9OF5f8

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by wesley

Neil,
We found the inspector ourselves through the grapevine but I think he's pretty chummy with the broker, who might have recommended the same guy if we'd asked them instead.

I think you're right about water following a bolt hole into the wood of the partition, and starting the rot from there. It seems like the same could have happened again directly under the mast, too. Impossible to truly know with the mast in place.

I'm surprised that you think the partition itself is not a big deal. I thought it would be an important part of the bulkhead, but it sounds like you think it's just there to make the transition from floor level in the saloon to the lower floor of the head? If that's the only wood that needs repair and it's not structurally significant, how would you approach a fix? Cut the bulkhead (and fiberglass sheath) back flush with the hull and rebuild? Dig out the rotten wood from the sheath and pour in a resin to fill it?

We're still deliberating our decision, obviously, and your help so far has been invaluable. Thank you!
-W

Oh sorry Wesley , when i say is not a big deal i mean is not a big deal to fix it, usually those bulkheads are filled with timber , probably at the bottom are dry and with a bit of luck the rotten portion is just at the top, cutting the top portion and digging the crap until solid Wood is reached , scarf a new timber portion, grind the surrounding FG and re FG the whole thing,
Epoxy made the trick here i think.

The mast base start to show serious signs of corrosión, good chance to solve it , the mast step need work to, if you dont want disimilar corrosión in the future there is PTF sheets we use in the shop to isolate winches pads and other gear in masts , you can found it in any rigging shop, they are cheap..

Also you can PM to Minaret here in the fórum who is a marvel guy giving advice in this isues...

[Emmalina]

Everything is repairable ! http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...le-158964.html

[gulfstar37]

Originally Posted by wsmac

.
This one?
.
https://youtu.be/uYafJ9OF5f8

Yes, they ran 4 or 5 short 10 minutes videos on there repair.