How Much Weight can I hang off the lower spreaders ?

[CarlF]

I would mount it on a radar mounting bracket on the front of the mast. Much easier to run the wires. Less windage. No weight concerns. Will look better. Just can’t see directly aft.

I’d mount it not more than 20ft off the deck so the light is reasonably lined up with your vantage point.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I would mount it on a radar mounting bracket on the front of the mast. Much easier to run the wires. Less windage. No weight concerns. Will look better. Just can’t see directly aft.

Thats where it is now on a seaview mount. With all the weight going on the mast it may be good to get some weight moved elsewhere on the boat?

It would be nice to leave it where it is so we can spot bigger boats closing in on us at night.

Damm that custom camera system is nice !!!!! Exactly what the doctor ordered. Not had any PM's about purchasing one of my kidney's yet though, so not looking good.

[dlj]

Why can't you put the camera on the crows nest rather than on the spreader? Another option may be to make a bracket and attach the camera to the mast.

I personally would not want to mount things on my spreaders. I don't like the idea of loading a spreader like that. They are designed for compression loads, not bending moments.

dj

[dlj]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

Thats where it is now on a seaview mount. With all the weight going on the mast it may be good to get some weight moved elsewhere on the boat?

By putting it on a spreader, you are still loading the mast. You've simply displaced the loading from centerline to off center.

dj

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by dlj

Why can't you put the camera on the crows nest rather than on the spreader? Another option may be to make a bracket and attach the camera to the mast.

I personally would not want to mount things on my spreaders. I don't like the idea of loading a spreader like that. They are designed for compression loads, not bending moments.

dj

Yes my thoughts as well which is why I posted asking for advice - I just dont have the experience to know. A Lot of very experienced old salts here, hence asking. I could ask at my drinking club (yacht club) but I would get 10 different answers all convinced they are right and everyone else is nothing more then a bum. Besides that they would all poo - poo it anyway.

The original plan was to put a camera unit like I linked too under the crows nest to keep the weight inline with the mast - for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I can still do that. Problem is it leaves me blind to aft (mast in the way) So If I do go that way I will need a small camera mounted to the spreader/s so that I can see aft and also can have better sitrep Port/Starboard while the main camera is scanning the fwd sectors. However that would mean standalone IR illuminators to get the range (100+mtrs) and that means more clutter and wiring - I dont think wieght would be an issue in that setup.

However the linked camera (esp the one with a Green Laser) mounted on each spreader would let me setup the cameras to do a "patrol" 180 degress from bow to stern in one unit.

But that green laser jobby is perfect for my needs - I can scare the living Sh*t out of the villagers paddling around the middle of the lake at night - long before they get close to us - much better then resorting to confrontations. Really prefer not to exchange gunfire at night - if i hit one - man oh man the paper work to go through !!!! (would have to retrive the body and take it to the local police station - I would surely be kept in cells for some time while they investigate) - besides the blood all over my tread deck would be hell to clean up !

No, all in all better to scare them off and live a quite life out there. But its very real - none of this is BS. I know all of this sounds surreal, but as an example, witchcraft is still a thing out here. People here are often in court for witchcraft offenses. Example - in January the year 2000, as the rest world went into the 21st century I had a witch doctor come to my yard and try to put a spell on me (someone complained about me over a wood plank deal - so they sent a witch doctor to sort me out). He had all the gear on and was chanting and invoking who knows what- he was trying to turn me into a goat. If we ever meet, you be the judge of whether he succeeded or not - I dont feel like a goat, so I am pretty sure he failed......

[Jim Jones]

This is what I need - so glad I found this.....

https://www.wiseled.com/securiy-illuminators-military

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0RSW3an-Qo

But I do get you probably dont need this in Turks and Cacaos or the med. Maybe good to have in the South China sea or the Horn of Africa?

There are some hairy parts of the world out there.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by Jim Jones

Yes my thoughts as well which is why I posted asking for advice - I just dont have the experience to know. A Lot of very experienced old salts here, hence asking. I could ask at my drinking club (yacht club) but I would get 10 different answers all convinced they are right and everyone else is nothing more then a bum. Besides that they would all poo - poo it anyway.

The original plan was to put a camera unit like I linked too under the crows nest to keep the weight inline with the mast - for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I can still do that. Problem is it leaves me blind to aft (mast in the way) So If I do go that way I will need a small camera mounted to the spreader/s so that I can see aft and also can have better sitrep Port/Starboard while the main camera is scanning the fwd sectors. However that would mean standalone IR illuminators to get the range (100+mtrs) and that means more clutter and wiring - I dont think wieght would be an issue in that setup.

However the linked camera (esp the one with a Green Laser) mounted on each spreader would let me setup the cameras to do a "patrol" 180 degress from bow to stern in one unit.

But that green laser jobby is perfect for my needs - I can scare the living Sh*t out of the villagers paddling around the middle of the lake at night - long before they get close to us - much better then resorting to confrontations. Really prefer not to exchange gunfire at night - if i hit one - man oh man the paper work to go through !!!! (would have to retrive the body and take it to the local police station - I would surely be kept in cells for some time while they investigate) - besides the blood all over my tread deck would be hell to clean up !

No, all in all better to scare them off and live a quite life out there. But its very real - none of this is BS. I know all of this sounds surreal, but as an example, witchcraft is still a thing out here. People here are often in court for witchcraft offenses. Example - in January the year 2000, as the rest world went into the 21st century I had a witch doctor come to my yard and try to put a spell on me (someone complained about me over a wood plank deal - so they sent a witch doctor to sort me out). He had all the gear on and was chanting and invoking who knows what- he was trying to turn me into a goat. If we ever meet, you be the judge of whether he succeeded or not - I dont feel like a goat, so I am pretty sure he failed......

So build a bracket such that you'd have the same visibility as putting it on your spreader. Spreaders are not designed to handle the loading you are asking it to withstand. Will it work? Likely, well, unless you get into some storm that decides to add in a lot of forces you don't normally see there.. I wouldn't want to do that to my spreaders.

Just keep the bracket as close to the mast as allows you the visibility you want.

dj

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by dlj

So build a bracket such that you'd have the same visibility as putting it on your spreader. Spreaders are not designed to handle the loading you are asking it to withstand. Will it work? Likely, well, unless you get into some storm that decides to add in a lot of forces you don't normally see there.. I wouldn't want to do that to my spreaders.

Just keep the bracket as close to the mast as allows you the visibility you want.

dj

Understood. If that super duper camera is a price I can afford then I will only get one (I am sure there will be no change out of 20K) and in that case it would be bolted to the underside of the crows nest.

we dont get the storms and winds that you do at sea, so it would probably work but I will let the experts decide - point of asking here is to get a general consensuses - so far it pretty much lines up with what the mast guy says. He did his apprenticeship at Spar Craft and has been doing masts for 30 years, so knows his stuff. But its always good to get a second opinion (other then at the drinking club that has a sailing problem)

[Cheechako]

Every pound at 30 feet up from the center of gravity is 30 ft lbs of righting moment lost. So 10lb is 300 lbs.

If your boat has a 60 ft mast off deck it's probably what... 37 feet or more up there from where the CG is.? (a couple feet below your cabin sole)
So 10lb - 20lb up there is 370 -740 lb of force counteracting your ballast.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Every pound at 30 feet up from the center of gravity is 30 ft lbs of righting moment lost. So 10lb is 300 lbs.

If your boat has a 60 ft mast off deck it's probably what... 37 feet or more up there from where the CG is.? (a couple feet below your cabin sole)
So 10lb - 20lb up there is 370 -740 lb of force counteracting your ballast.

yeah, thats sobering. Mast is 16.5 metres. needs careful thought indeed.

So putting that stuff up there with these implications does give credence to moving the radar down to the rear arch - get some weight off there and maybe just one camera. And that camera under the crows nest directly in front and centre of mast. Food for thought.

Thats why i come here to ask - i dont know the rules on what can/cannot be done.

I am putting in approx 600 kg of LiFePo4 (96 cells) centre line and mid ships - that should help some as far as righting moment i would think - is that correct?

[Franziska]

Your boat will roll a lot in any kind of swell if you add that much of weight aloft.

It will not be a comfortable place for the person spending the night up there in any kind of waves.

In case of a catamaran you could perhaps do it, but on a normal sailing monohull I would not do it. The camera maybe, but a person aloft every night.... Not really.

[skipperpete]

All night …. On watch… in a crows nest halfway up a mast…?.not for me. Spring the $12,000 for a FLIR and put a decent monitor screen at the chart table or in the cockpit, you’ll see crocodiles and men in canoes from a very long distance.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Every pound at 30 feet up from the center of gravity is 30 ft lbs of righting moment lost. So 10lb is 300 lbs.

If your boat has a 60 ft mast off deck it's probably what... 37 feet or more up there from where the CG is.? (a couple feet below your cabin sole)
So 10lb - 20lb up there is 370 -740 lb of force counteracting your ballast.

That's what worried me when people were suggesting gluing some ply to a chain-plate/bulkhead to hold the mast up.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Your boat will roll a lot in any kind of swell if you add that much of weight aloft.

It will not be a comfortable place for the person spending the night up there in any kind of waves.

In case of a catamaran you could perhaps do it, but on a normal sailing monohull I would not do it. The camera maybe, but a person aloft every night.... Not really.

So how much weight can go up there?

What I was planning (subject to advice that it is in fact OK) is a crows nest above the lower spreaders and cameras under the lower spreaders - for the exact reason of keeping it all as low as possible.

I wouldnt do this if it were going to be an ocean going boat but on the lake we dont really have a swell to deal with most of the time. That helps.

The crows nest will help in the swamps and river deltas, esp the Malagarasi River delta - its pretty wide and has a labyrinth of river channels - cant wait to get in there.

I will sort all this out when we get there - the night watchman will do something like an hour up there, an hour on deck - something like that.

[Jim Jones]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

All night …. On watch… in a crows nest halfway up a mast…?.not for me. Spring the $12,000 for a FLIR and put a decent monitor screen at the chart table or in the cockpit, you’ll see crocodiles and men in canoes from a very long distance.

It will be something like an hour on, an hour off - or something like that. We will sort that out and find what works and what doesn't and I always take 8 or 9 guys with me when I do a safari up the lake so the load will be distributed among the guys. Dont want to labour the point but security at night is crucial.

Which FLIR is 12k? depends on the model of course but the top end appears to be around 30K. Need some sort of stabilization and it really needs to PTZ. Thermal will see canoes for sure - I have my doubts about radar picking them up, hence all these out there ways to mitigate that.

That camera with the green laser is super interesting. A way to scare trouble away - I just want a quiet life minding my business sailing up and down the lake. Crocs are only a problem when you are in the water - hippo's represent a far far bigger threat - A lot of things want to eat you in this lake and is why I went ALU hull. I am doing all I can to stay out of the jaws of predators and out of the hands of bandits.

I am putting in approx 600Kg in batteries either side of the keel box ie, approx 400 on one side of the keel box and 200 on the other side of the keel box - so centre line and midships - the exact right place to put such weight - will this offset the weight up the mast? Ie, keep any rolling introduced by weight up the mast, down somewhat ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVeCdc9u9xo