How to create 3D model of my boat

[BMarek]

Hello,

I'm planing to do rebuild of the interior of my boat in some near future. I live 4 hours drive from the port so to save time for sailing I'd like to do most of concept work at home off season. Doing that with 3D design software like Google SketchUp seems reasonable but I need to have the 3D shape of the boat first.

The easiest way would be to take enough number of measurements and carefully transfer it into the software but this method would be very time consuming.

I am writing this hoping that maybe someone here has some ideas and experience how to do it as effective and as fast as possible.

Marek

[Franziska]

You could try photogrametry, but it's a steep learning curve if you want to get it right.
Glossy surfaces are difficult.

If you have a recent iPhone with Lidar depth sensor it might work though.

Alternatively pay someone for a 3D Laser scan.

Good luck!

[psk125]

The last time we put in at Tenant's Harbor, Lyman Morse was working on building a major cruising boat, and they were concerned about the same thing. They built a mockup on the shop floor out of 1/4" plywood that you could walk around in. (The cabin soles were heftier.) Pretty nice layout with settees, bunks, nav station, galley... In your case, doing something like that out of cardboard might be quicker than trying to learn new software that you're not going to use again, and provide better "real-space" results than trying to imagine what it might be like to make up a bunk in the forward cabin from drawings on the computer.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by BMarek

Hello,

I'm planing to do rebuild of the interior of my boat in some near future. I live 4 hours drive from the port so to save time for sailing I'd like to do most of concept work at home off season. Doing that with 3D design software like Google SketchUp seems reasonable but I need to have the 3D shape of the boat first.

The easiest way would be to take enough number of measurements and carefully transfer it into the software but this method would be very time consuming.

I am writing this hoping that maybe someone here has some ideas and experience how to do it as effective and as fast as possible.

Marek

Merek, SketchUp is a good tool for this (albeit a bit of a steep learning curve).

The way I did it with SketchUp was to use the basic measurements available for my boat (length, Beam, Draft, LWL, etc) the continued to play with the curves and shapes until the model "looked right" when rotated and spun.

It does not have to be exact unless you are going to generate actual patterns (in which case you'll need to visit the boat and so some more measurements).

Just to do the concept work you don't need exact measurements.

PS, to learn SketchUp I did the following design. It took about two weeks from the first time I opened SketchUp to this complete product. It is doable

[TrentePieds]

Long way about is the quick way home.

SailboatData gives you the profile and the arrangements for your boat. What it doesn't give you is what is called the "body plan", i.e. the thwartships cross sections at ten different places along the hull. And that is what you really need.

Blow up the profile and the arrangements plan to a convenient size. Given that you are in Poland you'll be accustomed to "metric" so use a scale of 1:10. Now draw the midships section so it "looks right", and complete a lines drawing in the old fashioned way, though by the time you get to here, you'll have enuff input to make a computer program work.

Laying out the interior of a boat "in concept" absolutely REQUIRES a complete "Set Lines", i.e. Profile, Half Breadth and Body Plan. Here is an example of what a "Set of Lines" is. Scroll down a bit to find them:

https://www.dixdesign.com/lofting1.htm

Have fun :-)

TrentePieds

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Long way about is the quick way home.

SailboatData gives you the profile and the arrangements for your boat. What it doesn't give you is what is called the "body plan", i.e. the thwartships cross sections at ten different places along the hull. And that is what you really need.

Blow up the profile and the arrangements plan to a convenient size. Given that you are in Poland you'll be accustomed to "metric" so use a scale of 1:10. Now draw the midships section so it "looks right", and complete a lines drawing in the old fashioned way, though by the time you get to here, you'll have enuff input to make a computer program work.

Laying out the interior of a boat "in concept" absolutely REQUIRES a complete "Set Lines", i.e. Profile, Half Breadth and Body Plan. Here is an example of what a "Set of Lines" is. Scroll down a bit to find them:

https://www.dixdesign.com/lofting1.htm

Have fun :-)

TrentePieds

Trente, I'm not quite in line with you on this.

If he works directly in 3D he does not need a traditional lines plan. It's helpful, but not essential.

I do usually work directly in 3D and I have worked from photogrametry, 3D scan and individual station measurements as well as from linesplans.
The method of choice really depends on the accuracy required.

What he needs to work in 3d is the deck outline, the profile and 2-3 stations if he does not want to do a 3d scan or photogrametry.
Stations in between will be interpolated when lofting from those lines in 3D.

Mind you outlines for a vessel found on the internet might not be precisely as the actual boat built.

Regarding getting the stations, if the boat is properly chocked in all directions he can mark 2-3 stations on the hull, maybe with the help of a simple laser and measure their offsets before transferring them into the 3D program of choice (Rhino is much better than Sketchup when it comes to free-form surfacing).

If he wants to modify part of an interior I do suggest trials with an iPhone with Lidar sensor. The results can be remarkably precise if done properly.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Marek.


The carpenters, I worked with, used hot glue & door skins to mock up cabinetry, etc.

[Spot]

Affordable Yachting - Sailboats listed (Jeanneau 27' 3"Fantasia)


I have done some mock-ups in Fusion360 but when it is time to make and install I have found cardboard templates to be more accurate that simplified 3D CAD. I also tried using a 4000$ scanner with and without the tracking stickers and that did not work but it was found out later that the cable of the scanner was broken. If it was going to be a large and/or expensive project I would probably opt for having someone scan the interior space. The I-phone LIDAR sounds interesting too.

[Spot]

A couple more things:
-Perhaps ask Jeanneau if they can offer CAD or plans for the interior volume, sole to ceiling to cabin sides
-A picture showing some of the features from the CAD as they turned out in real life. I am still not done...I have cleaned up/re-mounted the wiring but I am not done with the cabinets or interior finishes. I did get to sail the boat yesterday so that part is good

[vpbarkley]

I have used photogrammetry software, my camera and targets printed on an inkjet printer to accurately measure the contours of a boat hull.

The software I used was Photo Modeler. I think entry price is $1k now: https://www.photomodeler.com/

The software creates data which can be imported into CAD. This is a very cool process and it gives excellent results. I was up and running the same day, self taught.

Since boats are completely irregular, there's no way you can accurately measure them with tape measures and such. Your boat may not even be symmetrical.

I have 40 years experience modeling complex shapes using all manner of methods. Photogrammetry will get you there. The inexpensive scanners I have used will not.

[TrentePieds]

As a hobby within a hobby using computerized drafting is just nifty. But for what the OP needs to do, it is, IMO, shooting sparrows with cannon. You are not likely to even HIT the sparrow, but if you do - there won't be any sparrow left :-)!

It will take about four hours at the drafting table to do it my way. If you have a copier/scanner on your computer, print out the SailboatData arrangement plan and the profile, then enlarge the P/Os at a percentage that will give you a scale of 1:10.
Do it on 8 1/2 x11 paper (A4 if you are in Poland). Tape the bits together, and Bob's yer uncle. The strike-up marks for taping the bits together are endemic to the drawings. That whole job will take you all of 15 minutes :-)!

Lay a piece of vellum over top of the taped together bits and trace. Now fake up the midships section, and one or two more if you like. There goes another half hour. Now you can pencil in the appurtenances as you think you would like them and note their measurements which your scale ruler will give you directly.

As it happens, someone was at the recently about converting an ex-RCN YAG (harbour ferry, cadet training vessel and God knows what else) into a yot. I used that technique. Took about a day. The person saw sense. If Queen Lizzie thinks she can't afford the YAGs anymore, neither can he :-)

My method is accurate enuff for rough-cutting the component parts at home in the shop, then, in the boat, you spile them, finish-cut them and assemble them with appropriate stick-um.

Door skins are a joy for templates, and a limber lath for doing the spiling won't hurt. Very often, given that so many if the lines are un-straight, a router with the appropriate bit is a good tool for trimming to finished size in the boat.

Yeah, I know - I'm a Luddite :-)!

TP

[Eigenvector]

I've had this company bookmarked for years:


https://www.pix4d.com/


Just haven't had an excuse to try it. For a couple hundred bucks, it would sure save you if your labor is worth anything.

[BMarek]

You all are so great - I am overwhelmed by the amount of useful tips, tricks and professional suggestions from you! But to the point ...



The cardboard method is very good and could be quite effective to actually see how would the design look in almost real life. I got to know this method following Mads Dahlke Athena refit project that quickly comes to the end now (Sail Life on YT). I think I'll use it at some final stages.


I tend to go with 3D modeling because of few reasons. The first is how my brain works that is it starts to be very productive when I get into kind of design phase and see the images and shapes lines connecting them and so on. Hard to explain but I really like that phase. The second is that my son is quite good in 3D modelling (however always busy with his stuff so can't do the modelling for me) so maybe my learning curve would not be that steep. He's really good in Blender and knows some Autodesk software too but it does not mean I'll stick to any of the tools. I need simple yet effective software that is free (preferably opensource) as I will not use it for living


Franziska, could you please explain what station is in the context of 3D modeling?


Spot, I know that pictures - I think I have everything what was published about this boat. Unfortunately I could not find hull shape drawings that Trente was writing about.



I think I'll go the way Franziska and wingssail suggest and try to draw the boat from scratch and see how I feel with that (frustrated or excited). I need to choose the tool first - that will be hard I suppose ... Blender, SketchUp, Fusion360 Personal ... I don't know yet.


I'll definitely spend some time exploring photogrametry too, as it looks really cool.


Any way thank you some much for you answers.



Marek

[vpbarkley]

Photo Modeler Standard is available for $59 as a monthly rental.

There is also a free evaluation period with fully functional software.

Standard is capable of doing what you want.

I have no relationship with the company.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by BMarek

You all are so great - I am overwhelmed by the amount of useful tips, tricks and professional suggestions from you! But to the point ...



The cardboard method is very good and could be quite effective to actually see how would the design look in almost real life. I got to know this method following Mads Dahlke Athena refit project that quickly comes to the end now (Sail Life on YT). I think I'll use it at some final stages.


I tend to go with 3D modeling because of few reasons. The first is how my brain works that is it starts to be very productive when I get into kind of design phase and see the images and shapes lines connecting them and so on. Hard to explain but I really like that phase. The second is that my son is quite good in 3D modelling (however always busy with his stuff so can't do the modelling for me) so maybe my learning curve would not be that steep. He's really good in Blender and knows some Autodesk software too but it does not mean I'll stick to any of the tools. I need simple yet effective software that is free (preferably opensource) as I will not use it for living


Franziska, could you please explain what station is in the context of 3D modeling?


Spot, I know that pictures - I think I have everything what was published about this boat. Unfortunately I could not find hull shape drawings that Trente was writing about.



I think I'll go the way Franziska and wingssail suggest and try to draw the boat from scratch and see how I feel with that (frustrated or excited). I need to choose the tool first - that will be hard I suppose ... Blender, SketchUp, Fusion360 Personal ... I don't know yet.


I'll definitely spend some time exploring photogrametry too, as it looks really cool.


Any way thank you some much for you answers.



Marek

Station=Frame=Crossection

Regarding Blender, I use it extensively for computer graphic imaging, but I model everything which needs to processed later for use in production in Rhinoceros.

Blender is a great tool, but Rhino & Nurbs are more production oriented. Don't get me wrong it can be done in Blender too, but it way more complicated to work precisely.

Rhino has a fully working demo which is not limited for 90 days.

Rhino is like a 3d pencil and ruler, Blender more like a piece of clay and shaping tools.

Good luck!