How to fix these buried chainplates?

[alaskanviking]

That was my experience with the experts too. Took a while for a professional to care about the project enough to try and listen to me or look at the boat to figure out what needed to be done. I suspect for the most part they're looking for quick and easy or lucrative. My chain plates were too much work to figure out and chump change compared to the normal clientele in San Diego.

Finally grabbed a rigger that was lost looking for a boat he was supposed to work on. Exchanged a decent quote and "procedure" for taking him to the boat he needed to get too. Other wise gained a little insight here a little knowledge there. By they time I did it I knew enough to direct the workers and ask for what needed to be done to ensure It was done correctly. Painful thou. Happy I did it, not happy with what it cost, glad it's over lol

[WaldPinkler]

Amazing. I'm sure that detailed info is going to come in very handy when I get to work on it.

Chin up.... damn, I'm getting a brain tumor thinking of it.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by WaldPinkler

Amazing. I'm sure that detailed info is going to come in very handy when I get to work on it.

Chin up.... damn, I'm getting a brain tumor thinking of it.

I often wonder how the our counterparts of old did it before the advent of the internet.

I'm sure there will be someone "who's been there, done that" who can guide you on the maintenance required.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Of course we can't be sure but I'm thinking that glassing-over job doesn't look much like a factory option...

YES! This exactly!!!

Crealocks were so well-built you wonder if this was some lame add-on repair done at some point in the boat's lifetime.

Thank you, Jim!!!

I would DEFinitely talk to that Thumper guy at Pacific Seacraft and get the straight scoop.

Also, Wald, please note boatpoker's excellent advice. Yet another extensively experienced marine surveyor who knows whereof he speaks...

Best of luck with this repair. Please REALLY do your homework. I'm very sure you don't want to inadvertently compromise the structural integrity of your hull (purportedly cored above the waterline), nor the integrity and safety of your rig!

Fair winds,
LittleWing77

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

YES! This exactly!!!



Crealocks were so well-built you wonder if this was some lame add-on repair done at some point in the boat's lifetime.



Thank you, Jim!!!



I would DEFinitely talk to that Thumper guy at Pacific Seacraft and get the straight scoop.



Also, Wald, please note boatpoker's excellent advice. Yet another extensively experienced marine surveyor who knows whereof he speaks...



Best of luck with this repair. Please REALLY do your homework. I'm very sure you don't want to inadvertently compromise the structural integrity of your hull (purportedly cored above the waterline), nor the integrity and safety of your rig!



Fair winds,

LittleWing77

It’s not a crealock. Further upthread it was revealed to be a creala, a Taiwanese build to crealock plans.

[Manateeman]

It’s very, very dangerous to do this repair with the mast standing.
Don’t try grinding inside the boat. Remove all the current plates, bolts and back plates...it’s a lot of work. You might have to do a bit of hull repair. Post some photos after all the plates are out.
Titanium is great but there is really no need for such expense.
Silicon bronze exterior chainplates, button head bolts and back plates.

You might want to check out the credentials of those who give advice here.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his Crew of Professional Boatbuilding manatees

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by WaldPinkler

...Chin up.... damn, I'm getting a brain tumor thinking of it.

Well, now that you've been inundated with scary stories and hyperbole, I'm not surprised.

To repeat; every bit of 'advice' given here is based on someone else's experience, extrapolated from a single picture, including mine, and it all should be taken with an appropriately-sized grain of salt. (read; very big)

Don't be intimidated, the job is not that difficult, and a well-thought out plan and it's execution will go a long way to both speeding the job and alleviating worry whilst undertaking it.

So for even more thoughts, in no particular order, based on the little information we have...

With a keel-stepped mast, which I believe you have, doing the repair with the mast in place is made much safer than "very, very dangerous".

Improper bonding, even proper bonding, can initiate and/or exacerbate wood delignification and rot. If your chainplates go through a wood-cored deck, this could be part, or all, of the problem. In my opinion, bonding on any vessel is a difficult-to-engineer and sometimes (often?) counterproductive practice. It might be a good thing to get rid of on those chainplates. Do some research and get an opinion from a trusted local source.

From "Sydney to Queensland" can mean anything from a 500 to 2500 mile trip. Is it better to tackle the job in Sydney or get the boat home so you can do the job on your own schedule? A 500 mile motor cruise seems alot better than a 2500 mile one...

Of course, if removing the glass covering doesn't reveal a complete disaster, which it may well not, there are several ways to make a good evaluation regarding your next step. Close visual examination after glass removal can tell you a lot; the metal should be cleaned to a 'bright' condition to do this.

Impact testing can also tell you a lot; if there are audible differences between individual plates when struck with a small metal hammer, that could indicate ones that are more suspect.

Inexpensive ultrasonic thickness gauges are available, expensive ones may be able to be rented; again, individually different readings between chainplates could be used to guide your decisions.

As an explanation for my apparently seemingly unfounded 'optimism' of 50/50, or even, god forbid, 60/40, in your picture the stains clearly originate from above the throughbolts. If the boat in the picture you posted is your boat, then there are 2 more bolts above those shown in the picture. If the stains come from above them, then the source may not be the dreaded plate disease, but rotten wood.

Further, the stains continue down the hullside to pool on the stringer, or whatever it is, indicating that there may be no time for the oxygen-deprivation to do it's dirty work, regardless of how much some here seem to be sure it has.

Titanium is an extravagence, glassing in the plates is unnecessary unless you don't want to have exterior fasteners visible.

Stainless is about half the price of titanium; enough 3/8" x 2" 316L for 8 - 2' chainplates is available online for less than 300.00 USD. The best protection against crevice corrosion is a high polish, which is easily done with simple, hand-held power tools.

The primary strength of the chainplate to resist the tensile forces of the shrouds doesn't come from the sheer strength of the bolts, but from the friction of the plate clamped against the glass of the hull. Therefore the strongest method is to use a matching backing plate on the opposite side.
Thick fender washers are at best OK, regular bolts and washers are likely to eventually fail.

Silicon bronze is very attractive, but to keep it bright is for some a chore. It probably compares to titanium in cost.


So, more to daze and confuse. Won't do any more damage 'til you give us some more news.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Well, now that you've been inundated with scary stories and hyperbole, I'm not surprised.

To repeat; every bit of 'advice' given here is based on someone else's experience, extrapolated from a single picture, including mine, and it all should be taken with an appropriately-sized grain of salt. (read; very big)

Don't be intimidated, the job is not that difficult, and a well-thought out plan and it's execution will go a long way to both speeding the job and alleviating worry whilst undertaking it.

So for even more thoughts, in no part...............

+1

We haven't got much information to go on in this instance but there's just so much rubbish posted on these threads you really must sort out the chaff from the grain.

[jimbunyard]

In the above post 83, in the 11th paragraph, ', at least partially,' should be added between 'originate' and 'from', for accuracy's sake.

[Fore and Aft]

Jimbunyard I would say Boatpoker and myself have surveyed countless chain plates and seen the consequences of a chain plate failure on more than a few occasions. We only have one photo to go on but the OP said he got a $5000 discount because of the chain plate issue so myself and a few others cannot be the only ones thinking they should come out?
Its really an easy job once the mast is craned off and the boat interior taped up. I used to put my sperm suit on and do all the grinding and cutting in one go. Then do a meticulous vacuum and a wipe down with water to get any residual dust. Then its a matter of assessing the job in a clean environment and working out the best way forward. Any more glassing can be done in epoxy with peel ply on top to avoid the grinding issue.
I am not sure why the Dugong herd is worried about grinding inside the boat, Spongebob Squarepants can just wipe them down afterwards!
Cheers

[WaldPinkler]

I finally found a dinghy to get out to the boat so I'll be able to have another look at them tomorrow.

Here's the reply from Steve Brodie from Pacific Seacraft:

Unfortunately we are not going to be much help with the Creala. This chain plate arrangement is completely different than the Pacific Seacraft 40. I took a look at some Creala photos and don’t really understand the logic behind the internal chainplates. Seems it would have been far stronger and easier to keep watertight with the chainplates outside the hull. If the chainplate are original to the boat, they are well beyond their expected lifespan. If replacing, I would consider moving them outboard or at least adding a full backing plate outboard to limit any movement or flex that may be some of the root of your leaking issue.

My biggest problem is deciding to do the work in Sydney or risk getting the boat up to Noosa/Brisbane (900km). I left my car and trailer sailer parked next to a reserve. Not the most secure. I'll inspect the worst looking plate and make a decision from there.

[Fore and Aft]

WaldPinkler that's only a decision you can make. Certainly some of my clients who seem to be born under a lucky star go to sea in boats in bad condition and survive.
Lawries marina at Mooloolaba has a crane on the travel lift to remove your mast and a good yard to work in with lots of well qualified tradesmen.
You have mentioned Noosa a few times? Are you thinking of mooring there? I thought at low tide you can just about walk across the bar at the river entrance?
Cheers

[WaldPinkler]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

You have mentioned Noosa a few times? Are you thinking of mooring there? I thought at low tide you can just about walk across the bar at the river entrance?

I chatted to the coast guard just before I left. They'll do an escort in for a donation. The entrance changes regularly, unfortunately pretty sandy right now. A small swell and a spring tide should get me in fine.

[Fore and Aft]

WaldPinkler make sure you get those tides 100% correct I surveyed this yacht after it was salvaged and it was not pretty!
Cheers
https://www.noosanews.com.au/news/un...a-bar/2805336/

[KP44]

I have glassed-in chainplates and they will be replaced with outboard chainplates in about 2 weeks. The point of connection will move outboard by about an inch and will have no effect on the rigging.
The old chainplates will stay embedded in the hull and the new chainplates will be on the outside of the hull where they can be inspected as needed.