HUGE Refit, move boat to Dominica, Panama?

[roland stockham]

I see where you are coming from but would advise a lot of caution. Many countries where you can get stuff done 'cheap' have significant problems. It is definitely the case in Panama, getting even basic supplies can be a nightmare and cause big delays. I mean BASIC supplies. I have had problems even buying things like hoses. I was stuck trying to buy throttle cables. Only ones available where 25ft long. There is no real sailing scene so anything that is for sailing boats not motor boats is likely a special order. There are some spots in the Caribbean hat can be OK, Aruba and Martinique are worth looking at but as others have said getting major work done when you are not there to supervise is a major headache.

I don't know where you are based but another tack that might be worth looking at is to see if there is a local school that teaches relevant stuff. Does not need to be a boat building or naval school. If for example you need electrical work doing is their a college that teaches electricians? Can you get a final year student to help? They may be just as good and more conscientious that a yard because they are not watching the clock and will work for a lower hourly rate. If you are their to supervise this could be a way of getting stuff done without breaking the bank.

[sailingchiro]

I have a friend that wanted everything perfect prior to launch. He had been on the hard for 3 years. I finally took some painters tape and made a line around the boat at the water line, I told him, he is only responsible below that line, then he is splashing. He worked for 2 more months and splashed. He started to enjoy the boat while doing "smaller" projects while at the dock. The boat was fully functional but he wanted perfection. He is still trying for perfection but enjoying the boat in the process.

Sailing a boat from US to the Rio Dulce would require a boat the is able to be "perfected" at the dock. Just sayin.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by sailormarine

You could do this in Panama,at Shelter Bay Marina on the Colon side. Labor is definitely cheaper than here, but the down side is that anything comming in via customs is going to be a pain...unless you use one of the vendors at the Colon Free Trade Zone. We lived in Panama for four years and bought a boat there, which I hauled and worked on at Shelter Bay. The Marina manager and the yard manager were excellent, and the marina has a daily shuttle to Colon as well as restaurant, pool, etc. Just do bot expect to save as much money as you think you will.

What kind of problems did you have shipping to Panama?

Ive lived in Panama for about 5 years now and find importation to be quite easy. If you order thru Marine Warehouse they handle yacht in transit paperwork for you. I use a local freight forwarding service here which is super easy (just ship to a Miami address) and Ive never had to pay a dime of duties thru them.

[mvweebles]

I'm 2.5 years into a 6 month refit (not a typo).

My advice is to break the work into 4-6 week increments. Meaning that at the end of 4-6 weeks, the boat can be moved and used. I know, sounds inefficient. To my thinking, the biggest risk is the yard gets in over their head. This halts the downward spiral.

Trust me. Good advice.

Peter

[dannc]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

...

I don't know where you are based but another tack that might be worth looking at is to see if there is a local school that teaches relevant stuff. Does not need to be a boat building or naval school. If for example you need electrical work doing is their a college that teaches electricians? Can you get a final year student to help? ...

This is good advice. One of our ideas when the wife and I have discussed doing a home build, was to use local labor that had skills we needed. In NC, local community colleges have programs for the trades that we could tap into for workers from an accredited educational program. In Eastern NC, some of the community colleges are an even better resource for skilled workers because they have programs for the boat building and boat maintenance.

Later,
Dan

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

Would only work if you spoke Spanish and you supervised the work.

Yes, and supplies and parts of almost any kind suitable for the boat will need to be shippped in. A lot depends on your DIY level and what type of refit you do. Down south they do lots of powerboat work but much less for sailboats.
Since Covid my boat has been trapped in Belize waiting to get back to US where I can repair watermaker and reefer. Quotes for reefer work in Panama were just as high as in FL and they only know how to do things one way so there is little or no choice.
The exception is perhaps cosmetic work and bottom painting. They can use more effective bottom paints and the price is cheaper. We got the best most effective bottom paint ever while at Vista Mar on Pacific side of Panama.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Yes, and supplies and parts of almost any kind suitable for the boat will need to be shippped in. A lot depends on your DIY level and what type of refit you do. Down south they do lots of powerboat work but much less for sailboats.

Since Covid my boat has been trapped in Belize waiting to get back to US where I can repair watermaker and reefer. Quotes for reefer work in Panama were just as high as in FL and they only know how to do things one way so there is little or no choice.

The exception is perhaps cosmetic work and bottom painting. They can use more effective bottom paints and the price is cheaper. We got the best most effective bottom paint ever while at Vista Mar on Pacific side of Panama.

Why not take it to the Rio Dulce like all the other boats in Belize? There is a proper fridge tech here.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Why not take it to the Rio Dulce like all the other boats in Belize? There is a proper fridge tech here.

Yes thanks, I heard that is true and have not made final decision.
One factor is that I intend the boat to be based in FL in the future and if I have trouble I want to be near where I can get help from the tech who did the installation.
To the question asked by OP, we are part time cruisers who don't want to spend a lot of time in one port waiting for parts deliveries. Our preferred mode is to prepare the boat while it is in the US in the summer and fall where all supplies are easily available and head south in November. Although we have also stored the boat on the hard in Mexico and Panama during the summers, we found it very inconvenient to do more than the simplest repairs there.

[belizesailor]

Tis true. The Rio was my home base for about a decade. Ive been in Central America for almost 20 now....so maybe Im acclimated to some of the inconveniences.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

Would only work if you spoke Spanish and you supervised the work.

???? English is the official language in Dominica, as it is in all but the French islands of the eastern Caribbean. If the locals choose to speak Patois you probably won’t understand.

If the boat can be moved and you can find a way into Trinidad this will be your lowest cost skilled labor. There are no flights out so you will need to stay on your boat on the hard. Power Boat and Peaks in Chaguaramos are the two boatyards most would recommend.

Dominica has little or no marine infrastructure.

[mvweebles]

If your project needs access to marine-niche parts but you select a labor market where these are rare, the parts will be expensive, difficult to source, and the knowledge to install will be haphazard. You'd be surprised to know how difficult it is to get a decent quality hose clamp or stainless fasteners or bedding compound in many low-cost labor markets.

Bottom line: if a repair requires special parts, a low labor cost venue may be false economy. Not just because the parts cost may be high, but knowledge to work with those parts low.

Good luck

Peter

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

If your project needs access to marine-niche parts but you select a labor market where these are rare, the parts will be expensive, difficult to source, and the knowledge to install will be haphazard. You'd be surprised to know how difficult it is to get a decent quality hose clamp or stainless fasteners or bedding compound in many low-cost labor markets.

Bottom line: if a repair requires special parts, a low labor cost venue may be false economy. Not just because the parts cost may be high, but knowledge to work with those parts low.

Good luck

Peter

Meeh...that blanket statement does not apply to all venues. The Rio Dulce for example.

Stainless steel hose clamps, no problem, just drop into the West Marine distributor at RAM Marine and pluck a few off the shelf.

Proper bedding compounds and adhesives. Ditto.

There are 3 boat yards. The yard at RAM marine is USA grade including a huge paint shed.

Skills available: mechanic (outboard and diesel), welding, machine shop, paint/varnish, wood working, canvas, upholstery, fiberglass, refrigeration, sail repair, rigging ... and more.

Yes, specialty parts will still need to be imported, but that is neither expensive nor difficult. "Ritas Office" or "Captain John" can arrange it for you.

And yes, labor rates, even for skilled trades are substabtially less than the USA.

Plus many good choices for hotels and marinas.

[Nicholson58]

Note my post #25

In Chaguaramos there are three adequate chandlers in 5-minutes walking from either yard. There are in addition, three paint suppliers, a welding shop, sailmaker, canvas shop, Plumbing shop, wood supply, carpenter shop, chain supply and hydraulic supply store also close. You can have supplies sent in through the marina freight forwarder in Florida. Power Boat has a DIY indoor stall for project use by boaters.

If you can get there, Chaguaramos is a super place to get work done. Also, some of the lowest labor rates.

A fringe benefit is the low cost street food vendors outside the fence. Really miss the Doubles, goat curry and Chickie’s sandwiches.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Too Shea

HELP, Seeking genuine input and advice on a major refit project. I hesitate to post this because of the mean spirited posters so, please spare me any off-color remarks.



I bought an old sailboat, 1976 Gulfstar 52 MS. I fell in love with the lines, layout, history of it and the previous owner. I’ve been refitting it for the last 2 1/2 years! I’m a strong DIY’r but, I’ve gotten in over my head. Not because of my ability but, because of my time and energy to finish the project. I didn’t use enough discretion to know when and where to say ‘stop’. You know the saying, Perfection is the enemy of Good. Yes, the cost is also out of control and the project has dominated every available spare moment of my time.



A friend was telling me about his dad who moved a boat to Dominica (years ago) and had it refit there because of the significantly less expensive resources. This got me thinking. What’s the reality of me doing that? Is there real cost savings, reliable labor and supplies in this post-Covid day and age in a place like Mexico, Dominica, Panama or .... other suggestions?



Even though I’ve completed approximately 60%+ of the work on the list (I know the list never stops) and people who’ve seen where I’ve started can’t believe the transformation. However, I still have a significant project list that has me overwhelmed and mentally over it at this point. I need my life back.



Regular labor is impossible to find because of all the reasons we currently hear about on the news. The skilled labor that’s available will cost me another huge chunk of $ that I’m having a hard time getting comfortable with. I’m ok financially and know that it’s going to take money to finish, I’m just trying to explore options and see how I can wisely finish this beast.



I’m going to post this in other forums so no need to reply to more that one post. Thank you in advance.

Curious about the "Dominica" reference. Dominica is a beautiful place, but there is not jack for refit services, even today. Did you mean the Dominican Republic?

[save1960]

Bring your boat to Rio Dulce in Guatemala. Best place in the whole caribbean for that kind of project. Best prices and good workmanship.
I have been sailing central america/caribbean for 25 years.