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ShipShape · 31-01-2012, 13:53

Thanks for posting pictures of the damage - that's *really* bad. hehehe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmacal

I printed this 80+ page monster and did not gleam a section in it specifying proper procedure to follow regarding an external hull/deck seam repair. Just hoping someone that had experience in this repair could give a few pointers.

It is unlikely you will find a book with Chapter 8: How to Repair a Damaged Hull-to Deck Joint. The "80+ page monster" explains how to correctly make different kinds of fiberglass repairs and reinforcements. What DOJ said is about the best you can do.

Since it appears that the lips to bolt the hull and deck together are gone and the two NEED to be attached you should either really glass the hull and deck together very well along there, don't use roving - read the 80+ page monster for the best cloth choices. Or alternatively bolt straps across to hold the two parts together - I would use plywood straps (marine or exterior) and stainless steel machine screws, but SS or aluminum straps will do. Straps made of boards will split, and steel will make a rusty mess.

I agree, forget about trying to make it look nice, just do a strong fix and go sailing. The cool thing about fiberglass is you can always cut out your repair and try again some other day.

CarlF · 31-01-2012, 14:49

Agree that you don't want to get too carried away with the perfect fix. "Perfect is the enemy of good"

I'd focus on cosmetic on the outside and strength on the inside.

My favorite filler these days is thickened West G-Flex. This stuff sticks like crazy and flexes a bit. Much less prone to cracking off. I'd use it to rebuild the lip on the outside. Do it in several steps over a few days. Use a dremel to shape it to get the rub rail to go back on.

On the inside uses epoxy and cloth on the inside of the joint. Go at least 4" (6" is better) above and below the joint. Build up four or five layers and then lay a stiffener along the joint - could just be a 1"x1" piece of wood coated with epoxy then wrap a bunch of layers of glass over it and extend onto the hull and deck to make a beam on the inside of the boat. Will be real strong.

Carl

Opie91 · 31-01-2012, 15:25

Epoxy is the strongest, but I would think about using vinylester resin. It cures considerably faster than epoxy so the repair can move along at a quicker pace.

Cheechako · 31-01-2012, 16:11

I guess it depends on if you find if it's glassed together on the inside of the boat (did I miss the answer to that?) If it is, then squeezing Epoxy in from the outside, or easier.... use one o f the new two part (ureathane?) glues sold for marine construction. They come in a caulking size tube and mix themselves in the special tip as they come out. They are reported to be strong as heck. A salesman tried to get me to replace some of the welding on Aluminum boats with it..... and said they would guarantee the bond....

David_Old_Jersey · 01-02-2012, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I guess it depends on if you find if it's glassed together on the inside of the boat (did I miss the answer to that?) If it is, then squeezing Epoxy in from the outside, or easier.... use one o f the new two part (ureathane?) glues sold for marine construction. They come in a caulking size tube and mix themselves in the special tip as they come out. They are reported to be strong as heck. A salesman tried to get me to replace some of the welding on Aluminum boats with it..... and said they would guarantee the bond....

My presumption was that it is glassed together on the inside of the boat and that the outside "lip" was primarily cosmetic / an easy way of putting the lid on (and a cheap way of covering up the join).

Having said that, the deck could simply have been glued on.......nothing would surprise me! - but that would be an easy tell from looking at the inside of the hull.

Karmacal · 01-02-2012, 09:52

Easier said than done. I have a large cabinet and extensive trim to remove and once that is done I will post pics. Thank you guys/ gals.

Cheechako · 01-02-2012, 10:00

I was thinking Methacrylate structural adhesives, easy to use, strong as heck, fast setting. :
"Structural Acrylic Adhesives are a new class of adhesive, providing a unique balance of high tensile shear and peel strength with the maximum resistance to shock, stress and impact. They can generally be used with little or no surface preparation when bonding many metals and plastics either to themselves or to dissimilar materials. Resistant to salt water, broad temperature ranges, fuels, acids, solvents, UV and humidity, these Structural Acrylic Adhesives have simple, forgiving ratios and rapid room-temperature curing."

David_Old_Jersey · 01-02-2012, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmacal

Easier said than done. I have a large cabinet and extensive trim to remove and once that is done I will post pics. Thank you guys/ gals.

Yeah, but won't have to remove it all to see how the inside join is fixed (will be the same all the way along). No daylight is good

.

Maybe post up some more pics before dismantling the whole cabin (dismantling is the easy part - putting back is what takes the time, especially if (when?!) things don't come apart easily.

But it's all good fun

.........and what you learn with this boat will save you loads of time and cash with the next boat - mainly by understanding that no such thing as a quick / easy job (no matter what a Vendor says

) or even "I'm never buying another damned boat"

.....before you buy that 40 footer that needs "a bit of TLC" after sitting under a tree for 10 years......

**minaret** · 01-02-2012, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I was thinking Methacrylate structural adhesives, easy to use, strong as heck, fast setting. :
"Structural Acrylic Adhesives are a new class of adhesive, providing a unique balance of high tensile shear and peel strength with the maximum resistance to shock, stress and impact. They can generally be used with little or no surface preparation when bonding many metals and plastics either to themselves or to dissimilar materials. Resistant to salt water, broad temperature ranges, fuels, acids, solvents, UV and humidity, these Structural Acrylic Adhesives have simple, forgiving ratios and rapid room-temperature curing."

Methacrylates are great stuff, but much too expensive in the volume needed for this application. And while stellar for bonding things together, they exotherm too hot to fill much gap. I use a lot of Plexus myself, but the applications are limited. Working time is also much too short for this application. Much cheaper to use thickened epoxy, or for me, I would do the whole job in poly and fill with thixotropic resin. Cheapest and fastest, and more than good enough for this job. I'd back grind the damage out on the flange and onto the hull for 6" or so, glass it all up, fair, and re-gelcoat. But only if you care about the boat, the job would be more than the boat is worth. But for a free boat, why not? Might as well fix it right.

Cheechako · 01-02-2012, 15:08

I would guess on that small boat two or 3 tubes would do it...? They are self mixing (at least the one I used) and working time is not an issue as long as you keep pumping. Short working time is good with premix. An epoxy mix might end up running out at a pretty good rate. I guess you could try to tape over as you go to keep it in, but what a hassle. a lot of mixing, putting in tubes, drips and back and forth for mixing your own stuff... I get it wholesale but I think the tube I had was $16-20.

**boatman61** · 01-02-2012, 15:23

If it looks like this you got a tough job...
T-boned at the end of a 47day non-stop Carib-UK trip....

Mind.... the guys in Salcombe did a great job... could not tell she'd been hit...

**minaret** · 01-02-2012, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I would guess on that small boat two or 3 tubes would do it...? They are self mixing (at least the one I used) and working time is not an issue as long as you keep pumping. Short working time is good with premix. An epoxy mix might end up running out at a pretty good rate. I guess you could try to tape over as you go to keep it in, but what a hassle. a lot of mixing, putting in tubes, drips and back and forth for mixing your own stuff... I get it wholesale but I think the tube I had was $16-20.

You can get epoxy in tubes with mixing wands as well. Very low hang, variety of hardeners from fast to very slow, etc. It's called Proset, by the makers of WEST. You just don't get all that much bang out of a tube of either Proset or Methacrylate, IMHO, though. Squeeze out a tube in a bucket and you'll find you get a batch about the size of a grapefruit, or about 2-3$ worth of traditional thixo mix. But you paid $20 'cause it's in a tube with a wand. I use both a lot, but for very wealthy clients and in a pro setting where the time savings is more important than the cost of materials due to the high cost of our labor. For a DIY use I'd go with something cheaper and more accessible. Also I wouldn't glass poly over methacrylate. Hence the suggestion for thixotropic resin, which can be catalyzed however you want it and will hang perfectly with zero run out and minimal mess. Use a plastic trowel and bucket, don't see the need for fancy tubes and mixing wands, and I use them a lot. Methacrylate is also just about impossible to grind and fair on. JMHO.