Ideal cleat layout in the bow?

[Oeanda]

Thanks. The piece of plywood I am planning to use is one I scavenged out of an old fish boat. It seems to be in good shape after all its years. If I get a few more years out of it I will be happy enough. I will do what I can to seal it up well.

I guess a better fix, barring having some better cheat material, would be to just properly repair that entire deck area. Fill those holes individually, and make a smaller hardwood base for the windlass and Samson post.

I think for now I’m just gonna run with that piece of plywood and figure it might get replaced in a few years. I might be sick of the manual windlass by then.

What would be a good choice of goo to bed the ply to the deck with?

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

What would be a good choice of goo to bed the ply to the deck with?

Since you implied that the plywood would/will only be used for a relatively short period of time before more permanent work is performed on the deck, don't even consider the epoxy/291 you ascribed to in a previous post.
You'll take the plywood that you're going to use and give it some coats of epoxy, paying VERY close attention to the edges, and then paint it.
Then you'll lay in on the deck bedded in "Dolphinite", using a "notched" trowel.
That product WILL keep the water out and WILL assure future removal without contributing to massive amounts of destructive work.
Your deck probably has some camber/curvature whereas the plywood is flat.
You'll probably need some fastening out near the perimeters to "pull it down", but it's not at all easy to do if the plywood is very thick.
You want a FLAT surface for the windlass, and there again, the use of Dolphinite for bedding will allow removal without destruction.
Sometimes "invention" is necessary, like MacGyver.

[Oeanda]

Excellent. Many thanks. Time for some internet shopping.
I could pre-fit the plywood to the deck pretty well when I tried. But I will also work to pre-bend it to fit well, generally easy with some clamps and a little water or heat torture- and bolt it through the deck at the edges.

Edit. Looks like no Dolphinite for us in Canada but I’ll ask around about substitutes.

[Oeanda]

Re the bedding compound. So far - my usual Canadian supplier carries Life-Calk, butyl tape (I have some but probably not enough), and 3M 4200. I’m going to check the local hardware store today to see what they might have, and ask around for opinions down at the dock.

[JPA Cate]

Hello, again Oeanda. Forgive me if you already know this. If that timber deck has any leaks at all, fix them first, or remove the deck timber, and re-do the deck. A forward patch like you're suggesting will probably rot the timber underneath, and if there is any leak at all up there in origin, it will flow down and get into the cabin a ways from where it comes in.

Strongest recommendation to fix the underlayment first.

Sorry.

Ann

[Oeanda]

Roger that, thanks Ann.

The teak deck is of the 1/2” decorative Taiwanese variety, over fiberglass. Not real timber. I don’t believe the deck leaks there., It’s just a little beat up cosmetically from various holes being drilled over the years.

The teak strips are bedded to a thick fiberglass deck. Underlying that fg layer, there’s nothing, other than a large glassed-in backing plate for the windlass. The PO ripped out headliner, core,etc, back to the the first bulkhead. So from the inside, it’s just fibreglass in that spot.

So for now, any water that leaks in there (ie a hawsehole) would just drip on the pile of chain on its way to the bilge. That deck area seems strong enough while using it for three years or so. Repairing or reworking that spot is obviously on my list but pretty far down, I hope.

So- the thinking with a wide patch up on the deck, was to cover up some cosmetic stuff, including the old hawseholes, and add a strong plate at the same time, in one fell swoop. I don’t expect it to last forever. Obviously I don’t want to destroy anything else along the way.

Given that, do you still think a plywood patch is trouble? Does my ply job really have to leak ? Better material?
Is the ‘large strong covering plate’ idea just dumb.

[JPA Cate]

Oeanda:

Plywood is most vulnerable to water intrusion along its cut edges. You can seal them with epoxy, but seal the whole piece, not just the cut edges. (The edges will take a lot, it will wick right in; the flat portions, not so much. All holes you make, you want to treat each one with epoxy, so the water can't get in there, and then, use caulking for a final seal as you put the hardware into it.) Honestly, if the teak is in good nick, and there is an appropriate backing plate for the windlass, it might be easier to fix the existing holes and leave the foredeck plate off entirely. [Small holes, cut a piece of the right size dowel and epoxy in; large holes (as hawse holes) require a fitted piece of epoxied plywood. You can paint it to match the teak if you want.]

For the cleats, I have seen them mounted on timber blocks to get them up over the toe rails, for clean leading line to bull rails or whatever ashore. We have a few extra long screws through our traveler. The owner-builder welded them to make them long enough. You can bond backing plates underneath, for them. Use whatever caulking lasts best in your area of freezing and thawing. [In general caulking isn't forever, and requires being re-done from time to time.]

Ann

[wingssail]

We placed the windlass 10 ft aft of the bow. It is through bolted to the balsa cored deck. We used a teak board under the chain to protect the deck between the windlass and the bow roller. We installed a large samson post just aft of the windlass. It is massively strong and tied into a ring frame under the deck and down at the inside of the hull.

We have no chocks or cleats at the bow, just stainless anti chafe guards over the wood trim at the bow. Mooring lines tie either to the samson post or to the tack hooks for the jib (at the base of the forestay)

We run the snubber through the second bow roller and tie it to the samson post.

That far aft the hawse pipe dumps chain into to the bottom of boat and we move it aft to a locker before passages. Solves problems with chain piling up and keeps all the weight out of the bow.

Can't give you a photo right now because there is a dingy upside down on top of it all. Edit: found this shot

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

A forward patch like you're suggesting will probably rot the timber underneath, and if there is any leak at all up there in origin, it will flow down and get into the cabin a ways from where it comes in.

Ann

Ann makes a good point as always if you glue plywood over the teak, water will eventually get in there. I would be looking to remove the teak and then glass down the plywood or even put the plywood on the underside of the deck and glass in the holes on top.

[Oeanda]

Thanks kindly o wise ones. Ok then, I am moving away from the plywood idea for various reasons. It was a case of - one thing leads to another.


The new windlass doesn’t work out well with the old 4” hawsehole (the starboard one) from the previous windlass. That’s the main instigator for me. The new windlass and its base would tend to overlap that hole. Though, perhaps if I move the windlass further back than I really want to, I can clear the hole and then deal with it on its own. With a wood plug or a metal fitting with cap.

So I got to dreaming of just covering the whole area with a symmetrical triangular plate. Killing many birds with one stone, and adding strength. But apparently too good to be true.



Perhaps this is a dream for the future, using something better than plywood. More research.

I’m thinking back on my first idea which is just to cover that old 4” starboard hole by overlapping it with the wood base of the replacement windless. As sketched in black in the pic.



Two birds with one stone. And we might want to use that hawsehole again someday, if we ever reinstall the electric windlass.

It would mean making a wide (15”-ish) irregular shaped windlass base, with a jog out to the starboard to cover that hole.

I dunno. It’s back to thread reading and boat repair kindergarten research with me. Not sure a wide wood base will work. I can laminate several wood pieces together, and shape the underside to the shape of the deck, but maybe it’s just going to crack anyway.

Otherwise- I could just patch the damn 4” hole nicely already, and proceed from there ‘like normal’. Whatever that is

[SuW]

Hi Oeanda,
Interesting discussion.

We have bulwarks around our deck like you do, and had to lift up a windlass to get a fair lead for the anchor chain. We used several layers of scrap teak planks to make the platform.
We also put a fixed chain hook over the edge of the teak cap rail.

As for your cleats, ours are attached to the inside of the bulwarks. That may not be possible in your case unless you have internal access below (or can take off the cap rail). We only use the cleats for dock lines, not for anchor rode, except to tie off a movable chain hook.

[SuW]

Photos, fwiw:

[Oeanda]

Thanks SuW. That’s nicely done. I like the way you oriented the wood -that makes sense. I might be able to piece something together here that is strong enough, given how wide my base may end up being. I’m pondering different ideas.


Re the cleats- I was thinking I might be able to mount them sideways, on the bulwarks, sort of in the same area where you have some backing plates there. That is, if there’s room and it seems to make sense. I will have to look at that more in a couple days when I’m back on the boat.

Thanks for the pics. You also inspired me to post a thread just now about sideways iPhone pics. I’m assuming you’re using an iPhone? This is a simple workaround that I use to get them straight.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...nd-267678.html

[merrydolphin]

Obviously it’s your boat and you can do what you want. But I have had the same manual windlass, and it was one happy day when I could replace it with an electric. Just get caught at a nasty anchorage that you are trying to get out of in a hurry. You are in a sudden wind change and rapidly building sea setting you on a lee shore. Wow I have lost count on how many times that has happened to me.
There I am on a wildly pitching foredeck wee waa wee waa wee waa come on up damnit, lets go! That looks like a pretty good sized boat too. If the boat is small enough that in a pinch I could just haul that puppy up hand over hand, yeah. But that’s the only time I would want one. Just sayin from someone thats been there.

But I don’t know you or your background and situation and I may be totally off base. If so, sorry, belay my last! Enjoy your project.

[Oeanda]

Why do I get the feeling I’m slowly going backwards here? Ha ha.

Well, I’m keen to try the manual windlass for a while anyway. I will leave the old windlass wiring in place.

The electric one has been giving us trouble, so this is a chance to get it off the boat and see if we can get it working better.

Because it’s been unreliable, I have experienced all sorts of anchor hauling fun and games, including all too many times having to haul it up by hand, which is exceedingly painful, and barely possible. It’s sketchy. It means the girlfriend can’t safely run the boat by herself when there’s a gremlin in the windlass. So the electric one has to go for a while.

We will try the manual one till we get sick of it. I have had it in my mind that it’s probably just temporary, hence the ‘patch’ ideas. Thanks for the info and I’ll report back how it works out.