If cats have 9 lives, we've used 6 already. Opinions wanted.

[SneakyJackson]

Working on a 55 foot sailing cat.

Sadly, she has cracks in her bulkheads which radiate out from doorways, ceiling corners, furniture joins, several sections of floor, several stringers in the bilge, and underneath the drain pan of two showers.
All can be fixed, but it requires massive amounts of carpentry to be removed (destroyed) and rebuilt.

Currently in Mallorca, Spain. Many local contractors are great at what they do, but are booked out for some time. They are also more expensive than elsewhere, as they most cater to superyachts.

The boat also has extensive cracking in the paint at points where furniture joins the deck, or where horizontal surfaces meet vertical surfaces. Most of this is cosmetic, due to minor structural movement, or from poor fairing.

The boat also has extensive cracking in the non-skid on deck. Again, most is cosmetic, probably from poor fairing.

Needless to say, it's not ideal and will be expensive.

Warranty is not an option. Long story short: after much back and forth, the owner and boat builders settled rather than going to court.

The owner has no desire to hide the problems and sell the boat. He has more integrity than that. However, he doesn't want to spend a fortune on a boat that was meant to be high quality like a Mercedes, but ended up like a Hyundai.

Seeking opinions on alternative locations to have her repaired. The owner is considering having the structural side repaired in Mallorca, with the more cosmetic work done elsewhere.

What companies or shipyards have you used for projects like this?

Many thanks

[nuku34]

Sounds like a nightmare mate. Good luck and be happy you aren't the owner!

[noelex 77]

Structural problems on cruising boats are not uncommon. Cruising boats lead a hard life. These issues rarely feature on sailing forums because they require professional solutions and frequently litigation. This creates the impression that these difficulties are rare, but unfortunately they occur.

Make sure whatever boat you buy is structurally sound. There is a lot to recommend what may be regarded by some as "overbuilt".

Good luck with the issues. Make sure the boat is structurally sound before contemplating less important problems.

[SailingHarmonie]

Wait... is this boat NEW?????? Even Hyundais might not be fancy, but typically don't actively fall apart as they roll down the road fresh out of the showroom!

Sounds like the repair bill is going to come to a value that might make a full on replacement about even money if it is anywhere near as bad as you describe. It is likely there is worse, maybe MUCH worse, to find as the work proceeds. There is surely much structural ugliness hidden behind that cracking furniture.

And even after fixing it, is this a boat anyone would ever REALLY trust out in the middle of the ocean?

[Uncle Bob]

A lagoon perchance??

[Tin Tin]

You will likely get more useful responses if you tell us manufacturer amd model of boat. As you mention paint, was it a composite epoxy build or plywood?

[catsketcher]

Originally Posted by SneakyJackson

Working on a 55 foot sailing cat.

Sadly, she has cracks in her bulkheads which radiate out from doorways, ceiling corners, furniture joins, several sections of floor, several stringers in the bilge, and underneath the drain pan of two showers.


The boat also has extensive cracking in the paint at points where furniture joins the deck, or where horizontal surfaces meet vertical surfaces. Most of this is cosmetic, due to minor structural movement, or from poor fairing.

The boat also has extensive cracking in the non-skid on deck. Again, most is cosmetic, probably from poor fairing.

I would be very wary - incredibly wary.

If the cracking is outside, and where the vertical surfaces meet the deck then run away, the boat is massively underspecced and probably dangerous. If the cracking is inside and the vertical surfaces are not glued and tabbed onto the horizontal surfaces then you are in for a world of flex and probably pain in the future.

Cracking in the non skid may be from poor priming, rather than fairing. But it could also be due to flexing. If it is due to flexing then run away fast. Any 55 ft cat should have deck specs that ensure very little flex from foot traffic, especially if relatively new - hell even when old a boat should not have a flex deck. That is a throwback to the old IOR days when you built a yacht to win a world title and didnlt worry about its longevity.

Cracks radiating FROM the bulkheads seems as though the bulkheads were under designed. I have rarely seen cracks from the bulkhead doorways, this means the loads are not being taken properly by the scantlings provided - maybe lots of uni may help but for pete's sake, how did it get so bad? Was it overturned in the surf or something.

I did have a small ply crack in my aft beam after a couple of years. I looked at the beam and worked out the load issue and solved it with the addition of unidirectional glass and then a composite walkway to help take tension loads in the lower flange. All is good now but that was a small crack only I could tell was there. Find somewhere where people build good cats, maybe fly some proper cat builders in to get the structure properly glued and tabbed. Maybe Ben Inara would be interested in it. He does lovely cat work. https://www.facebook.com/ben.golledge.52/

[Pete7]

Height of the sailing season is just beginning. I wouldn't dream of trying to order anything at the moment if it can be avoided. A friend just had a quite for a sprayhood made in the UK £7000. The same company had no work in the whole of January.

So can the work be delayed until early winter?

Is the boat sound enough to make it to Turkey which would be my choice. They can make anything.

Pete

[SneakyJackson]

Good morning
As a newbie on this forum, I hadn't realised there were so many replies. Thank you everyone for your contributions and concern.
I should point out the boat has sailed some distance with the damage already (all before my involvement). The shipyard maintained it was mostly cosmetic. Maybe they naively believed this, maybe they were bull-shitting...
I suspect the damage was increased when the boat was hauled out late last year using a travel lift. Since then it has sat at the dock or on anchor, only ever moving in calm conditions and never with the sails. There was lots of back and forth with the boat builders before finally reaching an out of court settlement.
Yes, the boat is a late 2021 delivery. Fiberglass construction. Lovely to look at, but has spinal damage. She has crossed oceans, but not been tossed about by a hurricane. Her failing is primarily from the architect's design or the actual building process (if corners were cut to save time or money).
I not allowed to name the boat builders at this point, but can say the yacht owner had a smaller sailing catamaran of theirs previously which he was happy with, hence taking their new, larger model. However, between his two yachts there were some changes that may have impacted the build quality. Admittedly COVID and the resulting staff turnover didn't help, but that is only a minor excuse and not his responsibility.
While the situation is unfair and will be costly to the yacht owner, he is a man determined to move forward and not loose too much sleep over it. He had advised me to do the same. Thankfully, he has more $ than most of us to absorb the costs.
I've had several naval architects visit the boat in recent months, plus two highly experienced composite companies visit in the last week. Both companies are concerned, but feel confident sufficient reinforcing is possible to strengthen the compromised bulkheads, shower floors and saloon floor. The initial task is going to be removing furniture and grinding back the timber laminate to expose the composite material. A messy job, but until we do that nobody can be certain.
Once the structure is sturdy again we can move her elsewhere (Turkey has been mentioned a few times) to complete repairs to the non-skid and to rebuild the carpentry. Suggestions on shipyards or companies are most welcome.

As for the damage, it seems the uni-directional strengthening around doorways is minimal or was skipped. The doorways are 90 degrees rather than a radius as per the architect drawings. The shipyard claim the owner wanted 90 degrees for aesthetic purposes, even though they warned him it wouldn't be as strong. He has no recollection of this and the shipyard has no written proof. If I was going to build something different to the specs which may compromise the strength, I'd have it in writing to cover my ass. Just saying...
In my view there's ample evidence it was poorly finished and cheap components were used. However, we must make the best we can of the situation and turn the Hyundai into a safe and respectable yacht. Thankfully, a highly regarded company gave a thumbs up to the mast and rigging (which was outsourced).

[SneakyJackson]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Structural problems on cruising boats are not uncommon. Cruising boats lead a hard life. These issues rarely feature on sailing forums because they require professional solutions and frequently litigation. This creates the impression that these difficulties are rare, but unfortunately they occur.

Make sure whatever boat you buy is structurally sound. There is a lot to recommend what may be regarded by some as "overbuilt".

Good luck with the issues. Make sure the boat is structurally sound before contemplating less important problems.

You are correct about the priorities. Priorities have changed as the problems have unfolded. First, make her strong and safe once more. Then sail her somewhere for the other repairs and cosmetics.

[SneakyJackson]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

You will likely get more useful responses if you tell us manufacturer amd model of boat. As you mention paint, was it a composite epoxy build or plywood?

I'm hamstrung at this stage on giving exact details. Sorry.

Foam and fiberglass for the structure, with fairing, dark grey Jotun primer and white Awlcraft topcoat for the exterior paint. Why the Jotun underneath the Awlcraft I do not know. As I understand, the whole process is usually paint from one brand. That may be marketing to some degree, but might also be science and not worth the risk.

[SneakyJackson]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

I would be very wary - incredibly wary.

If the cracking is outside, and where the vertical surfaces meet the deck then run away, the boat is massively underspecced and probably dangerous. If the cracking is inside and the vertical surfaces are not glued and tabbed onto the horizontal surfaces then you are in for a world of flex and probably pain in the future.

Cracking in the non skid may be from poor priming, rather than fairing. But it could also be due to flexing. If it is due to flexing then run away fast. Any 55 ft cat should have deck specs that ensure very little flex from foot traffic, especially if relatively new - hell even when old a boat should not have a flex deck. That is a throwback to the old IOR days when you built a yacht to win a world title and didnlt worry about its longevity.

Cracks radiating FROM the bulkheads seems as though the bulkheads were under designed. I have rarely seen cracks from the bulkhead doorways, this means the loads are not being taken properly by the scantlings provided - maybe lots of uni may help but for pete's sake, how did it get so bad? Was it overturned in the surf or something.

I did have a small ply crack in my aft beam after a couple of years. I looked at the beam and worked out the load issue and solved it with the addition of unidirectional glass and then a composite walkway to help take tension loads in the lower flange. All is good now but that was a small crack only I could tell was there. Find somewhere where people build good cats, maybe fly some proper cat builders in to get the structure properly glued and tabbed. Maybe Ben Inara would be interested in it. He does lovely cat work. https://www.facebook.com/ben.golledge.52/

Thanks for your reply.

Thankfully, the external cracks where vertical and horizontal surfaces meet are more likely to be minor or cosmetic. I say this as the small paint cracks on deck are similar to others where furniture with no load bearing is connected to the deck. The TV enclosure on the flybridge is a stand-alone piece of furniture. There are hairline cracks all around the base. Hopefully, just a fairing problem.

That said, there are three types of cracks on deck. Numerous hairline cracks where vertical and horizontal surfaces meet. The non-skid has numerous cracks in random places with no load bearing. The non-skid then has cracks in areas that will see some load.

The bulkheads were seemingly underbuilt around the doorways. Problems started there and radiated to secondary areas. I'm confident in the knowledge and ability of the local contractors who have assessed her so far, even though they aren't cat specialists.

Thanks again. Wish me luck!