Induction/Expanded Electric vs Propane What Would You Do?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by poiu

Does nobody miss a 3 or 4 burner cooker? A proper meal is meat and 2 veg. That adds up to 3 burners. I just couldn’t do with any less and you can’t 3 or 4 of fit those induction units in the space of the cooker top. A row of them on the worktop wouldn’t seem right and no use underway.

I prefer to stirfry a lot more than 2 veg and it works great on my flat bottom steel wok on the induction plate while the steak is resting


A lot of my meals are either one pot or one pot + rice cooker or one pot + "stackable steamer".

[Pizzazz]

Induction cooking is very efficient, as electric tea kettles and electric pressure cookers are (all three are over 80% efficient). I do not think digital switching vs. electromagnetic current variation is such a big deal. May be you want to calculate a power budget based on how often you cook, drink tea, etc. and then see how often you need to run the generator.

One issue not discussed is that when you have such large loads (cooking, heating, cooling), they discharge the batteries quickly while the charging process is typically much slower. The impact of this is that you will always end up having the batteries at below 80% state of charge which is totally fine with me. It also means that solar is less relevant in this case as you will always have the batteries in the bulk charge mode which is generator territory. Thus, my suggestion would be convert everything but the grill to electric, have the inverter on all the time and run the generator when the batteries drop below 50%. You may end up replacing the batteries every 2-3 years vs. 5-6 but it is manageable with golf carts.

If your generator breaks often, you always have the engine backup or another portable.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Induction cooking is very efficient, as electric tea kettles and electric pressure cookers are (all three are over 80% efficient). I do not think digital switching vs. electromagnetic current variation is such a big deal. May be you want to calculate a power budget based on how often you cook, drink tea, etc. and then see how often you need to run the generator.

One issue not discussed is that when you have such large loads (cooking, heating, cooling), they discharge the batteries quickly while the charging process is typically much slower. The impact of this is that you will always end up having the batteries at below 80% state of charge which is totally fine with me. It also means that solar is less relevant in this case as you will always have the batteries in the bulk charge mode which is generator territory. Thus, my suggestion would be convert everything but the grill to electric, have the inverter on all the time and run the generator when the batteries drop below 50%. You may end up replacing the batteries every 2-3 years vs. 5-6 but it is manageable with golf carts.

If your generator breaks often, you always have the engine backup or another portable.

Almost none of this last couple paragraphs applies to the actual situation. Thanks for the thought though.

*1400 Watts solar and only cook during the day

That's around 800AH a day energy production worst case available for cooking and refrigeration (70AH refrigeration). The rest of the boat's electrical needs are a rounding error. Lol

My batteries, even with cooking and refrigeration, will only cycle from 100%/float at night for the refrigerator.

There is no engine to make power and the generator is what does HVAC.

[ramblinrod]

I don’t really understand the desire for these propane to electric conversions.

Yes propane can cause a fire or explosion if installed incorrectly or maintained improperly.

Guess what, high load DC systems can cause a fire or explosion if installed incorrectly or maintained improperly.

One note to the OP; there a many on-demand propane water heaters that are not compliant with marine standards. If yours is, please post make and model.

So there is the advantage with electric that one does not have to lug propane bottles off he boat. But ya gotta lug food and beverage, so propane is really just a fraction of the lugging. If one carries at least 2 good sized tanks, when he first runs out, you should have at least a couple months ago to wait until you get to a location where propane is relatively easily accessible.

When one switches to all electric, first it is a very expensive conversion to increase power generation and storage, it adds a lot of weight, even LFP, compared to propane.

Lastly, it is putting all eggs in one basket; if a major electrical system fault occurs, better like raw eggs, until it is fixed.

There are 10’s of thousands of boats with propane installed and no issues.

Of course induction cooking is a more recent technology, and some take pleasure in being able to say “look at me, I have an induction cook stove.”

There are pros and cons to every design decision. I have installed and used both; the food tastes the same.

[CatNewBee]

What I can tell is, we are happy with our 4 burner, vario induction hob, Lithium battery, Victron Quattro 5kVA inverter charger and 1650Wp solar. We use regulary 3 of the 4 burner for cooking. No generator required during the summer time.

Consumption for an average meal around 80...120Ah.

siemens iq700 ex275fxb1e induction hob

Rated 7kVA. no problem.

https://www.siemens-home.bsh-group.i...ops/EX275FXB1E

I would do the conversion again, it was worth it.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

I don’t really understand the desire for these propane to electric conversions.

Yes propane can cause a fire or explosion if installed incorrectly or maintained improperly.

Guess what, high load DC systems can cause a fire or explosion if installed incorrectly or maintained improperly.

One note to the OP; there a many on-demand propane water heaters that are not compliant with marine standards. If yours is, please post make and model.

So there is the advantage with electric that one does not have to lug propane bottles off he boat. But ya gotta lug food and beverage, so propane is really just a fraction of the lugging. If one carries at least 2 good sized tanks, when he first runs out, you should have at least a couple months ago to wait until you get to a location where propane is relatively easily accessible.

When one switches to all electric, first it is a very expensive conversion to increase power generation and storage, it adds a lot of weight, even LFP, compared to propane.

Lastly, it is putting all eggs in one basket; if a major electrical system fault occurs, better like raw eggs, until it is fixed.

There are 10’s of thousands of boats with propane installed and no issues.

Of course induction cooking is a more recent technology, and some take pleasure in being able to say “look at me, I have an induction cook stove.”

There are pros and cons to every design decision. I have installed and used both; the food tastes the same.

And that's what the other half of my brain says. All of this. And more boats burn from electric problems than propane problems by a large margin.

My propane water heater is outdoor, on deck installation. Not inside. Not "marine", it's constant hot water on demand.

Getting propane is a bit of a bear because it's so much to go do. It's hardly ever at the dock. A long Uber ride if there is even an Uber where you are. The attraction of all Electric is freedom from having to find propane.

Admittedly, my refrigerator uses the lion's share of the propane. 15lbs BBQ tanks every 3 weeks if I'm remembering correctly. The other items are a rounding error. I carry 60lbs.

Looking at changing to an electric household refrigerator so looking at changing everything.

But the other half of me says everything you posted above.

[Pelagic]

When I redid the galley, the motivation was to improve on the refrigeration/freezer system for remote cruising.
I had not intended to switch from gas cooking.
But the new top loading installation forced me to have to reroute the gas line down thru a penetration pipe in my wing steel fuel tank , then bend around obstructions two levels down, before connecting to the Smeg gas stove.
Even with small guys here in the Philippines running it... too hard to inspect and it made me nervous.

Running new cables and dedicated breaker was a much easier and safer solution in my case.... and now knowing how much we enjoy using induction in the Tropics.... we will never go back to gas.

If you cruise in a temperate climate, nothing wrong with sticking with gas

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Chotu

1400 Watts solar

Maybe 500Ah actually into the bank on an average good day.

Depends on weather, where you are etc, and LFP will of course be higher

[john61ct]

Wow propane refrigeration (freezer?) on a boat, definitely can understand the desire to upgrade that system once getting away from marina queening, whatever the cost!

But the heat-production appliances requires a closer analysis, not just investment but preferences, generator, boat size etc

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Wow propane refrigeration (freezer?) on a boat, definitely can understand the desire to upgrade that system once getting away from marina queening, whatever the cost!

But the heat-production appliances requires a closer analysis, not just investment but preferences, generator, boat size etc

Care to clarify this?

Surely I'm misunderstanding you.

[john61ct]

I was responding to

Originally Posted by Chotu

Admittedly, my refrigerator uses the lion's share of the propane. 15lbs BBQ tanks every 3 weeks if I'm remembering correctly

Originally Posted by Chotu

Care to clarify this?

Please ask a specific question, no idea what part you could find unclear.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I was responding to

Please ask a specific question, no idea what part you could find unclear.

Everyone was getting along fine and sharing ideas and then you came along....

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Now wait a second. You are seeing a slow transition from 2-3 amps as your cycle??? Or between 40 and 60 amps at the 12v battery? 4-6 amps on a 120v generator?

That's a completely different story.

Not having owned one of these before, I was assuming it cycled like a microwave.

7.5 amps on for a second or two at 220, then 0 amps for a second or two.
15 amps on for a second or two at 120, them 0.
150 amps at 12v, them zero.

Cheap and dirty binary cycling.

It's a COMPLETELY different situation if it is hunting around a bit but maintaining the load, going from a little too cold to a little too hot for a simmer.

That's completely workable. Just a little annoying.

Yes, I also wanna know how exactly induction looks like on the power supply side.
Our boats are designed to produce DC solar power as the main power source for the house battery bank.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Everyone was getting along fine and sharing ideas and then you came along....

Sorry I know sometimes I'm clueless, no social cues here, but I meant no offense at all here maybe you're reading something in I've no idea.

Just saying I agree reducing the propane consumption with a 12V fridge/freezer should be a high priority,

even if the "full galley conversion" idea is declined.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

I don’t really understand the desire for these propane to electric conversions.

How much does a propane bottle weigh?
20 lbs
stamped on the collar of the tank. For a grill sized tank you simply calculate the tare weight + 20 lbs, and that's how much the tank should weigh when it's full. Most 20 lb tanks have a tare weight of +/- 17 pounds when completely empty. This means a "full" propane tank should weigh about 37 pounds

Now I have to take this rusty baby out of the gas locker that has marks and ugly rings from the gas bottle and I have to carry it somewhere I don´t know and might find out that neither me not the supplier has and adapter to fill it.

In Your case that is 40 Lbs one way and 74 Lbs back to the boat with the rusty junk