Induction/Expanded Electric vs Propane What Would You Do?

[warrior 90]

Sorry,guess I a beer
34Lbs one way and 74 Lbs back to the boat

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

We use regulary 3 of the 4 burner for cooking. No generator required during the summer time.

Consumption for an average meal around 80...120Ah.

siemens iq700 ex275fxb1e induction hob

Rated 7kVA. no problem.

https://www.siemens-home.bsh-group.i...ops/EX275FXB1E

I would do the conversion again, it was worth it.

3 burners average
That sound realistic to me for a base line unless You want to limit the menu to romantic hamburgers

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Chotu

And that's what the other half of my brain says. All of this. And more boats burn from electric problems than propane problems by a large margin.

My propane water heater is outdoor, on deck installation. Not inside. Not "marine", it's constant hot water on demand.

Getting propane is a bit of a bear because it's so much to go do. It's hardly ever at the dock. A long Uber ride if there is even an Uber where you are. The attraction of all Electric is freedom from having to find propane.

Admittedly, my refrigerator uses the lion's share of the propane. 15lbs BBQ tanks every 3 weeks if I'm remembering correctly. The other items are a rounding error. I carry 60lbs.

Looking at changing to an electric household refrigerator so looking at changing everything.

But the other half of me says everything you posted above.

Just to remind You
To my knowledge propane refrigerators to my knowledge run with a constant pilot flame.
That is also an issue towards gasoline in relation to outboard motors/dinghy

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

How much does a propane bottle weigh?
20 lbs
stamped on the collar of the tank. For a grill sized tank you simply calculate the tare weight + 20 lbs, and that's how much the tank should weigh when it's full. Most 20 lb tanks have a tare weight of +/- 17 pounds when completely empty. This means a "full" propane tank should weigh about 37 pounds

Now I have to take this rusty baby out of the gas locker that has marks and ugly rings from the gas bottle and I have to carry it somewhere I don´t know and might find out that neither me not the supplier has and adapter to fill it.

In Your case that is 40 Lbs one way and 74 Lbs back to the boat with the rusty junk

You are "spot on". I just took my bathroom scales down to the shed and weighed a full bottle and it came to 37 lb.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Sorry I know sometimes I'm clueless, no social cues here, but I meant no offense at all here maybe you're reading something in I've no idea.

Just saying I agree reducing the propane consumption with a 12V fridge/freezer should be a high priority,

even if the "full galley conversion" idea is declined.

OK John I took your post the wrong way: apologies. I suppose that is why we have emoticons

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

propane refrigerators to my knowledge run with a constant pilot flame

And yes, that was the main impetus behind my comment above

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by coopec43

You are "spot on". I just took my bathroom scales down to the shed and weighed a full bottle and it came to 37 lb.

Yeah, the propane bottles are a real pain in the rear.
I am happy, this time I got away with a visit to Mrs.Google.
Hahaha, maybe You should also drink a beer

[a64pilot]

Steel tanks on a boat is foolish in my opinion, because of corrosion.
Aluminum is much better, one of mine is 30 yrs old and is still fine.
We use 10 lb tanks, and they last a month each and weigh I believe 20 lbs full. They aren’t hard to carry at all.

But it really comes down to CatNewBee’s post, 80 to 120 AH per meal.
If you have the means to support that, then you will be fine. I consider us a very electric intensive boat with a really large fridge / freezer, Engel that we use as a deep freeze keeping temp around 0F, and we watch a lot of TV etc., but still our average overnight utility bill is 130 AH. We have 1000W of Solar and can’t quite cover that in Winter.
Cooking two meals a day which we do would pretty much triple that, and that would mean running the generator to cook, which I’d prefer not to do, and I have to think my neighbors would also prefer us to not be running the generator preparing the afternoon meal as most prefer a quiet anchorage about sundown.

CatNewBee is the first to actually quantify how much that I have read, and what some consider cooking is actually heating up preprepared food, and nothing wrong with that, but I sense that is how they get by with one “burner” and don’t use a lot of power, for those of us that cooking doesn’t involve much prepared foods, it takes longer to cook and often at least two “burners”. Rarely three, but very often the oven, unless of course you fry most meats, which we try to limit fried food.
So what do you do for an oven? Electric oven would surely at least double the power requirement, and if so then it’s 200 AH per meal that the oven is involved, as a SWAG.
So it’s of course a viable option for those that can support the power demand, but those that have 500W or less of Solar, it’s just not happening without a generator running, not actual cooking anyway. Average boat it’s going to mean that a generator is required to cook

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Steel tanks on a boat is foolish in my opinion, because of corrosion.
Aluminum is much better, one of mine is 30 yrs old and is still fine.
We use 10 lb tanks, and they last a month each and weigh I believe 20 lbs full. They aren’t hard to carry at all.

But it really comes down to CatNewBee’s post, 80 to 120 AH per meal.
If you have the means to support that, then you will be fine. I consider us a very electric intensive boat with a really large fridge / freezer, Engel that we use as a deep freeze keeping temp around 0F, and we watch a lot of TV etc., but still our average overnight utility bill is 130 AH. We have 1000W of Solar and can’t quite cover that in Winter.
Cooking two meals a day which we do would pretty much triple that, and that would mean running the generator to cook, which I’d prefer not to do, and I have to think my neighbors would also prefer us to not be running the generator preparing the afternoon meal as most prefer a quiet anchorage about sundown.

CatNewBee is the first to actually quantify how much that I have read, and what some consider cooking is actually heating up preprepared food, and nothing wrong with that, but I sense that is how they get by with one “burner” and don’t use a lot of power, for those of us that cooking doesn’t involve much prepared foods, it takes longer to cook and often at least two “burners”. Rarely three, but very often the oven, unless of course you fry most meats, which we try to limit fried food.
So what do you do for an oven? Electric oven would surely at least double the power requirement, and if so then it’s 200 AH per meal that the oven is involved, as a SWAG.
So it’s of course a viable option for those that can support the power demand, but those that have 500W or less of Solar, it’s just not happening without a generator running, not actual cooking anyway. Average boat it’s going to mean that a generator is required to cook

Yes, now we start talking realities and not manufacturers ratings of 1 induction top.

Where does the juice come from when not hooked up to shore power ?

How much do our DC inverters actually like this AC love affair

[john61ct]

Not quite as thirsty as running aircon off stored energy but in the same realm.

Either you've a boat that supports **lots** of panels, or you're just timeshifting generation of very regular ICE power.

Or maybe timing the cooking for "free excess" production, which would probably be the cleverest load dump I've come across yet, Instant Pot, thermos cooking, opportunistic flatbreads, hmm now I'm hungry 8-)

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Sorry I know sometimes I'm clueless, no social cues here, but I meant no offense at all here maybe you're reading something in I've no idea.

Just saying I agree reducing the propane consumption with a 12V fridge/freezer should be a high priority,

even if the "full galley conversion" idea is declined.

Ok. Thank you. The marina queen really got me since I'm an active cruiser and an writing to you off grid as we speak here. That's an insult to say a boat is a marina queen. Not sure what that was about.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Just to remind You
To my knowledge propane refrigerators to my knowledge run with a constant pilot flame.
That is also an issue towards gasoline in relation to outboard motors/dinghy

No, they don't work like that. No pilot light. They ignite every time the refrigerator needs to start cooling down.

It's been running for 5 years now so, no worries on people theorizing about propane refrigerator/freezers. They work just fine. IF you're willing to haul 2 BBQ size propane tanks every 6 weeks to feed them.

[s/v Jedi]

About number of induction burners: for traditional meals that include vegetables, it’s an easy change from using one burner for cooking the vegetable to steaming it in the microwave. We found that even the cheapest microwave steaming baskets work great and steaming results in better taste.

We have gone way further into long term, self reliance provisioning, with the goal to take everything needed for 6 months and bring back all garbage. For vegetables and meats this means that stews, soups etc. form an important part of provisions as these can be pressure canned for shelf stable storage in the pantry. We stretch that as far as making chicken fajitas from pressure canned chicken.
Meats for grilling are frozen and items like cream, butter etc. are stored in a separate fridge held at just above freezing temperature.

For cooking, these soups and stews mean one cooktop burner is enough because that is used for boiling rice, potatoes while a Mason jar is heated in the microwave. The microwave is gimbal mounted for use during passage, with the convection oven fixed on the countertop for use at anchor.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Steel tanks on a boat is foolish in my opinion, because of corrosion.
Aluminum is much better, one of mine is 30 yrs old and is still fine.
We use 10 lb tanks, and they last a month each and weigh I believe 20 lbs full. They aren’t hard to carry at all.

But it really comes down to CatNewBee’s post, 80 to 120 AH per meal.
If you have the means to support that, then you will be fine. I consider us a very electric intensive boat with a really large fridge / freezer, Engel that we use as a deep freeze keeping temp around 0F, and we watch a lot of TV etc., but still our average overnight utility bill is 130 AH. We have 1000W of Solar and can’t quite cover that in Winter.
Cooking two meals a day which we do would pretty much triple that, and that would mean running the generator to cook, which I’d prefer not to do, and I have to think my neighbors would also prefer us to not be running the generator preparing the afternoon meal as most prefer a quiet anchorage about sundown.

CatNewBee is the first to actually quantify how much that I have read, and what some consider cooking is actually heating up preprepared food, and nothing wrong with that, but I sense that is how they get by with one “burner” and don’t use a lot of power, for those of us that cooking doesn’t involve much prepared foods, it takes longer to cook and often at least two “burners”. Rarely three, but very often the oven, unless of course you fry most meats, which we try to limit fried food.
So what do you do for an oven? Electric oven would surely at least double the power requirement, and if so then it’s 200 AH per meal that the oven is involved, as a SWAG.
So it’s of course a viable option for those that can support the power demand, but those that have 500W or less of Solar, it’s just not happening without a generator running, not actual cooking anyway. Average boat it’s going to mean that a generator is required to cook

I think what some are missing here is exactly what you touched upon. The overnight utility bill.

That's what really matters.

My overnight utility bill should be about half of yours. Just a refrigerator running. Maybe the girlfriend will watch a movie. Batteries will be at 75/80% state of charge in the morning. Sun comes up and in a short time the batteries are back at float.

Cooking breakfast takes 20 mins at a medium (600 watt) setting at worst. Pancakes are the most energy intensive meal. Assuming a 1400 watt array and assuming only 50% rated output, I'm still MAKING power while cooking breakfast. Although it's probably low solar output as the sun is not too high yet.

If not just reheating leftovers, we make a large meal at around noon-2pm using a couple burners. As a random example... One on high to boil water probably 10 minutes assuming pasta. Then another on medium heat to cook onions, brown beef, then take it to simmer to thicken the sauce.

Boiling the water would be a net energy draw, as it's 1800 watts. Probably around 800 watts out of the bank per hour. Divide by 3 (20 mins) is 22AH for the boiling.

But between noon and 2pm when we cook, its max solsr output and when we are simmering or cooking lower temps, we are still MAKING power that’s getting stored in the batts to offset the power drawn to boil.

So cooking pasta with bolognese is a net gain or at least a break eben on the power budget.

Everyone is picturing the cooking is getting energy from the batteries. It’s not. It would mostly come straight from the solar panels.

We reheat either on the lowest setting in a pan or using a micowave currently. No change there.

Extra electric power also gives us a chance to use a slow cooker occasionally.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

About number of induction burners: for traditional meals that include vegetables, it’s an easy change from using one burner for cooking the vegetable to steaming it in the microwave. We found that even the cheapest microwave steaming baskets work great and steaming results in better taste.

We have gone way further into long term, self reliance provisioning, with the goal to take everything needed for 6 months and bring back all garbage. For vegetables and meats this means that stews, soups etc. form an important part of provisions as these can be pressure canned for shelf stable storage in the pantry. We stretch that as far as making chicken fajitas from pressure canned chicken.
Meats for grilling are frozen and items like cream, butter etc. are stored in a separate fridge held at just above freezing temperature.

For cooking, these soups and stews mean one cooktop burner is enough because that is used for boiling rice, potatoes while a Mason jar is heated in the microwave. The microwave is gimbal mounted for use during passage, with the convection oven fixed on the countertop for use at anchor.

Up to this point You have all the votes of my stomach even so I don´t know how that would result in terms of weight with lot´s of jars and fridge/freezer capacity.

How do You bake bread ?