Interior refit 1970's kit sailboat questions

[wingless]

My suggestion is purchase and install the water tank first, then build the structure around that tank, maintaining acceptable access for the fittings, pump, filter and level sensor wiring.

[wingless]

Don't forget to permit the normal / expected tank expansion / contraction when full versus empty to avoid creating improper stress.

[Spot]

Thanks W.
I will have to mull the tank thing over. I was leaning towards jugs. Here are some of the old threads:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ut-213695.html

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...or-213106.html

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/side-berths-trailer-sailor-width-217951.html

Going to give it a break tonight, severe storms in the area heading this way. Reports of enclosed trailers flipping over with people inside. I will try again tomorrow...

[Spot]

I was hoping to back to this thread with stories of success but alas it is not so.
By Saturday evening I had 5 beams tacked in place with 5 minute epoxy from stem back to the side berths. Sunday morning I got the two longest ones tabbed into the hull with glass cloth and regular epoxy. I went to tab in the 3rd beam (moving toward bow) and I knocked it loose. I tried to use some small timbers to establish a plane to reset the third beam aligning it to the second and fourth. Then I knocked loose the 4th beam. At that point I stopped, braced the two tabbed beams against being disturbed, and closed up the boat.

Any tips for applying slight forward and downward pressure on the 2 middle and AWOL v-berth beams without bring the house of cards down on itself?

[wingless]

Originally Posted by Spot

...

By Saturday evening I had 5 beams tacked in place with 5 minute epoxy from stem back to the side berths. Sunday morning I got the two longest ones tabbed into the hull with glass cloth and regular epoxy. I went to tab in the 3rd beam (moving toward bow) and I knocked it loose. I tried to use some small timbers to establish a plane to reset the third beam aligning it to the second and fourth. Then I knocked loose the 4th beam. At that point I stopped, braced the two tabbed beams against being disturbed, and closed up the boat.

Any tips for applying slight forward and downward pressure on the 2 middle and AWOL v-berth beams without bring the house of cards down on itself?

These tabs are breaking loose? If not, then please post an image showing the problem.



These are good for setup but not for strength.

[Spot]

Sorry, I confused my terms in regards to 'tabs' and 'tabbed'.
-there are little blocks to hold the plywood level 'tabs'

-the beams labelled 1 and 2 are 'tabbed' to the hull using glass cloth and resin.
-beams 3 and 4 popped loose before I could begin tabbing them to the hull
-beam labelled 5 is tack glued but has no 'tabbing' with glass cloth and resin

Here are some some more pictures, hopefully the situation is better presented.

[wingless]

Thanks for the additional images.

Sorry I am partially confused...

The parts attached w/ five minute epoxy break off and the parts retained w/ glass mat and epoxy are secure, correct?

Originally Posted by Spot

Any tips for applying slight forward and downward pressure on the 2 middle and AWOL v-berth beams without bring the house of cards down on itself?

Why not proceed forward attaching enough parts securely to the hull, then use those secure parts to permit attaching the problematic parts at the required location?

[Spot]

Originally Posted by wingless

Thanks for the additional images.

Sorry I am partially confused...

The parts attached w/ five minute epoxy break off and the parts retained w/ glass mat and epoxy are secure, correct?
?

Not all of them, but first #3, and then #4 which I was using along with #2 to try to fix #3. I am afraid #5 is suspect. #1 and #2 did not weaken and made it through the reinforcement stage. They are screwed or braced where possible to aid in getting the rest done.

Originally Posted by wingless

Why not proceed forward attaching enough parts securely to the hull, then use those secure parts to permit attaching the problematic parts at the required location?

That sounds like a good plan. I think I weakened the 5 minute epoxy by taking too long to mix, apply, and place the pieces. Next time I will take regular epoxy and dope it with fumed silica and milled fibers to give it some anti-slump and body. That should give me more time to get things slid into place and clamped.

[Spot]

I put the 3rd beam back in place tonight.
The plain boards were already clamped to the first two beams and the whole 'rig' was test fit before mixing.

The 30g (1oz) epoxy mixed up nicely. Once loaded with glass fibers and fumed silica, it had a consistency of a gelatin or pudding well on its way to setting. I buttered the hull and the ends of the beams, rotated the beam vertical, and slid the ends into place. I had a clamp acting as a 'pusher' but it was bending the beam at one click past loose. A couple back-and-forth's loosening and tightening the blue clamps nearest the epoxy joint while pushing the beam around did the trick.

Having the 15 minute open time of this epoxy (versus a scant 5 minutes) and a system that keeps it all in place while working really helps. The excess from the joint was spread around to form a fillet and some tape was placed on the hull to accept the excess on the sides harder to reach.

Picture from the outside looking in through a starboard port light:

[wingless]

The frame is looking good, thanks for the updates.

Is the epoxy being used to "glue" the end to the hull, or are there other structural and bonding methods for securing the frame to the hull?

[Spot]

I am using the epoxy to set the beams to the hull, then I am using cloth and glass to add a little more strength to these joints. I can now see why a beam shelf is normally used, much easier than 'floating in space' so to speak. Once the plywood is on and the plywood is glassed back to the hull, the strength of the beam to hull joints will be a secondary concern as everything pushes down under load and wedges into the hull and cannot move aft which would allow it to come loose.

The one from last night turned out pretty good. Hoping to set the other one that fell out tonight with the same clamping rig. After they are set, I will add the cloth and resin patches and can start thinking about templating the plywood. I am still waffling on building in a water tank, seems like this boat is so small that 'dry camping' it might be easier. I do want to add a Porta-Potti as there are some islands on a nearby river that allow camping if the boat has its own 'facilities'. The height of the v-berth will allow a 2.6 gallon model which I don't see an overwhelming need to plumb with pump-out and vent. So I may pull the hoses and patch the deck.

[wingless]

Those strength statements are all correct. Another option for more strength is to have a U-shaped part, straddling the supports glassed to the hull and to the supports. Even with the glass as shown in the images, those supports don't have intrinsic stand alone strength. Yes, the deck will help.

+1 on providing a head.

[Spot]

All the beams are back in, and the two that popped loose previously have benefited from being re-set with the slower epoxy mixed with fibers and thickener.

The green tape did not work as planned. Because of the fibers and sitting overnight, I was not able to peel it off cleanly. A few minutes with a multi-tool and a putty knife followed by a rotary sander with a coarse paper and a softer pad got everything ready for the layer cloth and resin. The squeeze-out made a little bit of a fillet which was easy to sand on the aft sides of the beams.

So I am back to where I was pre-failure, with improved joints that should survive until all is reinforced with plywood and glassing to hull.

[wingless]

Looks good.

What is that vertical red board, where the mast should be located?

[Spot]

Thanks W.
The red piece is the original 2x4 compression post. The mast is deck-stepped. There is wood all the way from cabin ceiling under the mast step to the fiberglass in the bilge. There is a similar bracing where the cable winch for the swing keel sits under the companionway.